Talking to Your Kids About Recovery

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Greg Miller

We're wanting to be able to control their perception of us. Yes. You know, and I hear it both ways. Moms and dads talking about the fact that they don't want to be more open with their children because it will change the way they see us. And, you know, I've, I've had dad say, you know, I don't want them to know anything because they respect me.

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Greg Miller

And if they know this, they won't respect me. And what I challenge and encourage me to understand is the most respectable thing is someone who is honest and authentic about what has happened. And so, yes, it may look different and there may be a reaction if you share. But what is respectable is someone who's owning their stuff and owning it to the children, not just to their spouse.

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Randy Evert

Welcome to the Faithful and True podcast. I'm Randy Everett, your co-host. And today I'd like to introduce Doctor Greg Miller, together with from our staff, Alexis Greaves. And they're going to be talking about the subject of talking with kids about recovery. So here now is Greg and Alexis and the Faithful and True podcast talking to kids about recovery.

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Greg Miller

Welcome to the Faithful and True podcast. My name is Greg Miller and I'm the host. And with me is Alexis Graves, who is a part of the Faithful and True team. And together we're going to be talking about a very complicated. And I think it's significant topic. And that is what are the specific details that you might need or want to share with your children to help them in their own journey in recovery?

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Greg Miller

And it's great that Alexis is with us. She has a background in working specifically with children, and now a lot of our focus is working with moms as moms are trying to relate to their kids. So there's a huge background in understanding the dynamic between parents and children, and even the needs and the specific complexity of children themselves.

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Greg Miller

So we are very glad that you are here.

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Alexis Greeves

All right. Thank you.

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Greg Miller

And you mentioned you were the one that brought this topic up. So just tell me a little bit about what the conversation was that caused you to believe that this could be helpful.

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Alexis Greeves

Well, you and I have spoken in the past about, the why of conversations and difficult conversations, whether that's full disclosure or it's just talking to children about things related to betrayal, things related to addiction. And I've had quite a few parents say that they listened to those, and those were very helpful. I think what we really emphasized in those previous conversations was, was really this idea of why these things are so important to help our listeners to kind of wrap their minds around and perhaps even to become a little more flexible on some thinking around, should I, shouldn't I talk to my kids?

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Alexis Greeves

So that was really the why were those conversations? But I've had people come back to me and say, okay, I get it. Yep, I'm on board. Like I agree, how how do I do this now? Like you I'm in. I'm. I want to have hard conversations with kids. I just don't know where to start. I don't know what to say.

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Greg Miller

Right. Well, and I think that's the big thing. It's the question of what exactly do I share with my children? What would be helpful? And so just to kind of lay it out, what we're going to try to do is talk about different age groups, because what's true is the conversation needs to be a different. So we'll talk a little bit about elementary school children, middle school children, high school children, but also really important adult children, children out of the home.

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Greg Miller

And so that's one of the things that we're going to do. And one of the the things I'm aware of is a lot of times we use the, the idea of full disclosure, having a full disclosure with our children. And the more that I think about that, the more I'm not sure that that phraseology is most helpful. We do understand the importance of a full disclosure with a spouse kind of to regulate and help her to understand your own reality.

00;04;12;08 - 00;04;35;11

Greg Miller

But in this particular case, it's more about discerning what type of conversation and what specific details. And do we believe it's going to be helpful. And we just want to acknowledge it is complicated. And just to give you a context, we had a staff meeting where we talked about the details of what you share with children. And even as a staff, we weren't in full agreement.

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Greg Miller

And so that's just to say that this is very complicated. And so what Alexis and I are going to share is some of the broad principles that some of the details that you might consider sharing, and some of the reasons why you might not want to share those. And but we're also going to talk about the importance of giving the children the information that they need to validate their reality and perceptions and that children who are in the home.

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Greg Miller

But I think another significant part of this is for the children who are out of the home. This may be history and it's their history. And it's amazing for an adult child to have their reality of what the home was like or what was going on in the home for that reality to be validated even as an adult.

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Greg Miller

So that's going to be some of the context.

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Alexis Greeves

Yeah, yeah. That's great. It's making me think of a client that I'm seeing. I'm seeing a daughter, an adult daughter of a woman who came through. Both her parents came through faithful and true. And, one of the things that we talk about is this idea that, kids are the best absorbers and worst interpreters. And and her mom had really taken that in and used that language with her.

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Alexis Greeves

I recognized that you and your siblings were absorbing a lot of what was happening, and probably didn't have a lot of way of understanding it. And so now when I'm working with this adult daughter, that's how she frames it. She goes, help me make sense of all that I've been absorbing. Right. Right. And, and so I think that that's really penetrated for me, this idea of like, yeah, children are absorbing, they're absorbing.

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Alexis Greeves

And, they, you know, they want their outsides to match their insides.

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Greg Miller

Right. You know, one of the things that I think is important in this is recognizing there is a cost to telling our children.

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Alexis Greeves

Yes.

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Greg Miller

And there's a cost not to tell our children. And so for those listeners that are wanting to avoid a cost, there is no avoiding of a cost. It really is about determining which cost we are going to pay and which cost is less. So let's start with kind of a broad category of children who are in the home.

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Greg Miller

So it could be from elementary school age all the way up to high school students, but they are in the home. They know that something is going on. What might be some of the specifics that would be helpful for a child to know.

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Alexis Greeves

As it relates to the father's acting out, right? Well, the first thing I would say is, with any kind of conversation or as parents are, are thinking about this themselves. I think the number one thing that I would encourage parents to do, is to step inside their child's experience. Right. And so, I mean, we can give some we can give some ideas.

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Alexis Greeves

But first and foremost, I really want parents to mentor lies. They're what their child is experiencing. And to see that through their eyes. So, I think the most important thing with children is to think about what are the things that are directly impacting their everyday life.

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Greg Miller

What is the reality that the child is experiencing? Yeah. And so it is about giving them enough context for why there is tension. Yeah. And sometimes our hesitation is to make it vague. You know, Mom and dad are going through a difficult time right now, but one of the things that we see is if it's too vague, it's actually not helpful.

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Greg Miller

We often say that clarity is kindness. Yes. And so if we just say that Mom and dad are going through a difficult time, then the child's perception might be, well, mom's having a big reaction just to a difficult time. Right. And so that's where some of the details of what the betrayal was, the context, if it was looking at pornography, if it was, acting out with other people, if it was a long term affair.

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Greg Miller

Those are the kinds of details that help a child understand and regulate. Oh, that's why there's so much tension right now. Or that's why mom is hurting so much. Yeah. And so it's important that whatever those details are, that help make sense of the child's circumstances. I think that's important. I think another thing is to validate the schedule.

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Greg Miller

You know, what's interesting is people, their lives explode or someone is exposed. They quickly get into help. And so they start going to counseling. They start going to groups. And there seems to be a hesitancy to tell the children where you're going. And it's confusing, like, why is dad gone every Tuesday night? That doesn't make sense. And so to be able to say, not only has this happened, but this is the kind of support that we're getting and this is the way it's showing up in our lives and our schedule.

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Greg Miller

If it affects economically to be able to say some of the money that we would spend on other things is now going to counseling or workshops, it's helpful for the kids to understand. Oh, that's that's why things are different.

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Alexis Greeves

Yeah. Yeah. Right. I was thinking just that it might be that, we can't pay for piano lessons for this year or for this, you know, for the next six months or. We can't. You're not going to be be in the same, hockey club, right? Right. Like, we still want you to play hockey. We just, you know, and and this is why.

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Alexis Greeves

Because we're having to put money, time, resources towards, making sure that everybody is, is getting the help that they need.

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Greg Miller

Right. And so there's obvious things that I think children are observing, the experiencing. Those are the things that we get clear about. And so it can be about what's going on between, you know, the the husband and the wife if there's a, a separation, obviously just naming that. Yes. And giving the reason why, whether it's an in-house separation or an out of house separation.

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Greg Miller

What are the factors that contributed and why that was a good decision. And I think that's another factor in this. The more information that children have than the more permission the parents have, and helping them to understand why that decision was made. Yes. And so, you know, the idea of why can't dad live at home right now? Well, if we're not talking about why dad's not living at home, then we can't talk about why we believe that this is a good decision.

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Greg Miller

Yeah. And again, that's the type of thing that without that information, I think it does create more confusion than is necessary.

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Alexis Greeves

Yeah. Yeah. What are your thoughts? I mean, I hear a lot of parents, you know, will say either they fear their kids will say this or the kids do just ask, are you guys going to get a divorce? How do you talk to parents around around that question.

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Greg Miller

Well, I think the most important thing is you never promise anything that you can't guarantee. And so one of the things I know that that was one of the questions that, you know, our boys had early on and the only thing I could say was I can't answer that right now that what's true is I don't know how this is going to play out.

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Greg Miller

And for in our particular story, I really didn't have any reason to believe that we were going to make it. And so I certainly didn't want to give them false hope. Yeah. And so I tried to answer it, but I didn't answer it with a specific, you know, declaration. I didn't say we were getting a divorce. I didn't say we weren't because that wasn't decided yet.

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Greg Miller

And that's part of what I communicated, is that we don't have enough information to make that decision yet. Yeah. And so what we're going to be doing over the next couple of days, months, weeks is get as much information as we possibly can so that we can make a wise decision. And then I think it's also, you know, if you think of the question, are you all going to get a divorce behind that question?

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Greg Miller

Is the need, the desire to know, how is this going to affect me? Yes. And so ultimately, that is the question. And trying to answer that question, how is this going to affect the children? And, you know, it's naive in some ways foolish to believe this isn't going to affect the children. Yeah, I hear so many parents talk about the fact that they want to protect their children from this, and yet that realistically isn't possible.

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Greg Miller

There are going to be consequences. There is going to be exposure. And so what we're wanting to do is to help the children have the information and resources they need to navigate whatever the impact is on their own lives.

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Alexis Greeves

Yeah. Yeah. I, I'm, I'm glad you use this word protection. Right. Because ultimately that's what we feel is, is sometimes our number one job as parents is to protect our kids. I started to sit with this idea of when does protection become control? And and that we can phrase things or frame them in our own mind as parents, as I'm protecting my child rather than kind of saying actually, am I just controlling because that feels more comfortable to me.

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Alexis Greeves

I can control what they know, control what they're feeling, control their response rather than, allowing them to to sit in some of the unknown. Right. Which is what we're sitting in as well.

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Greg Miller

Well, part of it too is we're wanting them. We're wanting to be able to control their perception of us.

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Alexis Greeves

Yes.

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Greg Miller

You know, and I hear it both ways, moms and dads talking about the fact that they don't want to be more open with their children because it will change the way they see us. And, you know, I've, I've had dads say, you know, I don't want them to know anything because they respect me. And if they know this, they won't respect me.

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Greg Miller

And what I challenge and encourage me to understand is the most respectable thing is someone who is honest and authentic about what has happened. And so, yes, it may look different and there may be a reaction if you share. But what is respectable is someone who's owning their stuff and owning it to the children, not just to their spouse.

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Alexis Greeves

Yeah. Yeah. That's. Yeah. I, that's interesting for me to hear that from the men's perspective because I don't I don't get to hear a lot of that. And then for a lot of women, I think they want to, maintain a perception that their father is, is a hero. And, you know, just just as you were saying, we don't want to, we want our kids to grow up in a sense that, or with a belief that it's okay for me to be real and authentic and that means all my flaws.

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Alexis Greeves

And it also means that I'm in need of a redeemer.

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Greg Miller

Right. Well, and part of it, too, is I often say, if there's something you want your kids to do, then model it. Yeah. So if you want your kids to be honest, model honesty. If you want your kids to be committed, model commitment. If you want your kids to be trustworthy, model being trustworthy. And then if you want your kids to own stuff, then model owning stuff.

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Greg Miller

Now there's probably a good point to pause and say. That doesn't mean children benefit from knowing everything. And that's kind of the complexity of this particular topic, is we're committed to try to talk about some of the specifics. So one of the things I would say is in general reality, children don't need to know the kinds of pornography that a dad has looked at.

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Greg Miller

And there simply needs to be an information that dad has looked at pornography. I would say that if the father has crossed a flesh line, whether it's paying for an experience or engaging experience through an app or meeting someone at work, that that information is shared, that it's gone beyond this place now to this place. And again, the reason I think that that is so important is it right sizes, the children's experiences of why things are so intense right now, or so gloomy right now, or so hopeless right now.

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Greg Miller

It gives a validation to why their dad is so anxious or distant, or why their mom is so sad and grieving. So that may feel awkward for a dad to say that to the children. But I do think that that's an important thing that helps right? Size a child's experience.

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Alexis Greeves

When you when you talk to men who have had these conversations, let's say that they're telling you I'm anxious, I don't want to do this. And then they're brave and they do the hard thing. What do you what do you hear from them as far as, like what surprised them about those kinds of conversations that they had with their kids?

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Greg Miller

Well, you know, what's interesting is it falls into two categories. And this is kind of vague, but there are those men that believe that their children are going to be able to hear this and receive it and not be derailed by it. And, if prior to this information, the father felt connected to the kids, there was a sense of family connection, you know, that there was a family unit, then the children can hear this.

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Greg Miller

It can be difficult. Again, the question is going to be, are y'all getting a divorce? Because what the kids want to know, is the family unit going to survive this? Yeah. Because why? We like the family unit. We like what we have here. And so in many cases, if that's the situation, the the dad is pleased that they were able to hear it and were able to move forward.

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Greg Miller

What's complicated is if apart from this issue, there was a lot of pain and chaos and disruption in the relationship with the children. This somehow just emphasizes that. Yeah. I've seen it. Whether it's teenage children who had a difficult and painful relationship with their father. Dads who were absent. It really, I think, happens when dads are perceived as being self-righteous.

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Greg Miller

And so they've been critical and judgment judgmental and self-righteous. And then this information comes out. And I especially see it in adult children where they had a complex relationship with their father. And it was about image management. It was about looking good at the church. It was about some level of self-righteousness. And then this information comes out.

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Greg Miller

Then it makes perfect sense that the children feel very betrayed by this and can also feel validated. Yeah. That it's kind of like this was a piece of the puzzle they did not have, and now they have it. Yes. And I do think that that's kind of a gift for adult children. Yeah. Is when we become adults, we begin to have the capacity to reflect on and understand more about our experiences growing up.

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Greg Miller

And so for an adult child who gets this information, it helps them make sense of some of the chaos or some of the experiences or some of the dynamics that were going on in the family that they they were absorbing, but they had no concept of interpreting and more than likely misinterpreted.

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Alexis Greeves

Right. Right, right. I also wonder for some of those families, like in the first scenario, you set up this question, kind of the anxious question of are you getting a divorce? And then in some families, the children might be asking, can you promise me you're getting a divorce? Finally. Yeah. Like, can we end this?

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Greg Miller

Yeah, I absolutely think that that is true. Is that, there are times where because of a pattern of destruction. Yeah. And what happens is this comes out then for many of the children, this is like the nail in the coffin. This is the thing. This is the thing they are hoping will be enough that their mother will choose to move away.

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Greg Miller

I also know that, tragically, there are times when a mom uses this information and uses it in kind of a way to misrepresent the situation and misrepresent the the dad. That's not to say that she's not telling the truth. It's just that she's framing it in such a way that the dad becomes the villain in the story.

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Greg Miller

And one of the things I believe is in life, there are no heroes. There are no villains. They're just people. So if you're telling a story and you're making someone else to be the villain, then there's a piece of the story that's being misrepresented. And so in this particular case, if the the mom is the one that's telling the story and she's villain dad, she may just be putting fuel on the fire of validating, well, then it's time for a divorce.

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Greg Miller

And and again, in some cases the details will be more helpful, especially if there's this sense that some of the dynamics have been misrepresented. I know of situations where dads went back to their kids and said, basically said, I know that your mother said this. And yet from my perspective, this is how I experienced it and this is what was true for me.

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Greg Miller

I mean, sometimes the children can hear it and sometimes they can. But that's part of the complication. If there's not an agreement between the parents on what's going to be shared and how it's going to be shared.

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Alexis Greeves

Yeah, I think I think this is why it's so important that women. Well, either parent I spent a lot of time with women are thinking about and doing their own work because one of the things that's just so critical is that we're not turning to our kids to meet our emotional needs. And so if those emotional needs aren't being met in some healthy ways, you know, in your pursuit of emotional growth, then, then women can turn to their children to create alignment.

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Alexis Greeves

And that's why I think this idea of, as I'm thinking about what I'm going to share with my children, to think about what is their experience as opposed to what is my need right from my child. Right. And if my need is is like validation, validation that I'm going to say things that are going to create alignment, my child to align with me rather than than just kind of sit in the reality and the truth.

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Greg Miller

Yeah.

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Randy Evert

Thank you for joining us today on the Faithful and True podcast. We hope that you have enjoyed today's presentation. As Greg and Alexis talked about talking to kids about recovery. We hope that this has been beneficial to you, and we invite you to visit our website, Faithful and true.com, where you'll find lots of information and online registration for our three day intensive workshops for the Faithful and true.com to visit our site and to find those connections.

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Randy Evert

In the meantime, we hope that this coming week will be a week for you that's filled with many blessings and with great patient.