Surrendering in Recovery

Greg Miller

You know, one of the things that is true is when we are in our anxiety and fear and, you know, I've I've heard it said, I say, that anxiety and fear are indicators that we perceive ourselves as unsafe. You know, they're kind of like warning lights on the dashboard that something is going on where I don't feel safe in this moment, or I don't perceive myself as safe in this moment.

Greg Miller

And one of the ways we try to create safety is through control. I often tell the minute the workshop is, if anybody's ever called you a controlling person, if they called you a control freak, that's simply an indicator of how unsafe you feel in your own life. So the great irony is, what is so counterintuitive is when I am feeling anxious because I feel unsafe, I want to take control.

Greg Miller

And what we're actually talking about is counterintuitive. Instead of trying to take control of something I can't control, it is surrendering to my out of control this.

Randy Evert

Welcome to the Faithful and True podcast. I'm Randy Every year co-host, and we're happy to be here today with our usual host, doctor Greg Miller. Greg, you're looking great in purple.

Greg Miller

Thank you very much.

Randy Evert

All right. And our special guest today is right here from our faithful and true team, Elizabeth Hardisty. Hello, Elizabeth. So glad to have you back with us again today. We are here today to talk about a very special subject. And that is the subject of surrender.

Greg Miller

Absolutely. And not only is it a special subject, but it's a very complicated subject. That idea of being able to surrender to what is and using the language that we use here, faithful and true, about a wise man and a wise woman, wise people surrender, whereas survivors acquiesce. And what we're really wanting to do is have that choice of surrendering to what is versus just letting our circumstances consume us and define us.

Elizabeth Hardesty

Yeah, I want to hear a little more from you, if you don't mind, around acquiesce. Can you say a little bit more about that of.

Greg Miller

Yeah, sometimes. Sometimes we are in a very difficult situation and instead of choosing to surrender, we passively just acquiesce. And when we do that, it does take away our agency. It can easily move us more into that victim place where I'm letting myself be defined by my circumstances versus naming and acknowledging my circumstances for whatever is true, and then surrendering to that.

Greg Miller

And there is this aspect of choice. I mean, a lot of times we think that surrender is a passive thing, but reality is surrender occurs when I, in truth acknowledge my circumstances, name my reality, and then give myself over to what is happening versus just acquiescing like a wave that's washing over me where I'm powerless. Surrender actually empowers us.

Elizabeth Hardesty

That makes me think a little a little bit about a phrase I often hear from women I work with. I mean, couples we've worked with, where it can often come up of, I feel like I'm giving up with whatever it may be. I feel like I'm giving up. And we often talk about surrender being it's not giving up.

Elizabeth Hardesty

It's letting go. Right. And I think, as you said, it's kind of nuanced of what's the difference between the two. But I think there's that intentional choice like I am. I am choosing to accept the reality of what is right, and I'm letting go. I'm accepting my powerlessness. I'm accepting the reality of what is and letting go versus giving up.

Greg Miller

Well, and there's another aspect where we are actually resistant to our reality. We we don't want to engage it, we don't want to name it. And so we give ourselves this false hope or false belief by not beginning with whatever is true and whatever is real, and that wishful thinking, that kind of magical thinking or fantasy is when we begin outside of our reality, hoping for something better, when in reality there's no evidence that is identifying that something better is going to happen.

Greg Miller

It really is challenging to live in truth. But one of the things that we talk about is all truth sets us free, and some truth is painful. Some truth has consequences. But even that truth creates freedom when we embrace it. But when we're resistant to the truth, we step into another falsehood that actually holds us hostage.

Elizabeth Hardesty

Well, it's a good way to think just maybe slow this down a little bit and pause right there because I think that it's, it's starting with and this comes up a lot doesn't it. And the work we do with women, with men of being able to start to face whatever is true. Right. What is what is my reality.

Elizabeth Hardesty

And that, that can be that can feel like an easy thing to say. But that's a difficult thing.

Greg Miller

Oh, absolutely. And especially for women that are just surprised by this information, they are genuinely shocked. It is new reality. And new reality always takes time to be able to embrace, because there's this competition between what we thought we knew and now this new information that we're getting. And it takes some time to actually integrate those two things.

Greg Miller

And so, you know, I often hear women and men at the beginning of the journey talk about how surreal it is that it's like this. This new reality has been created so quickly that I'm not really able to engage it. I'm several years ago, for one of my birthdays, I asked for the opportunity to jump out of a plane, a tandem jump with a parachute.

Greg Miller

And fortunately all I had to do is jump and the other person did all the work for which I'm thankful. But one of the things that I was aware of is the experience was so intense and so quick, I could not stay in the reality of what was going on. It was almost like after we landed and I had an opportunity to think about it, that reality caught up with me.

Greg Miller

And many times when we get this intense new information, it is like somebody pushed us out of a plane and all of this stuff is coming at us quickly. So it does make sense. It takes time to get our feet back on the ground again and be able to live into this new reality that we have.

Randy Evert

Is that when you got scared, then you just jumped.

Elizabeth Hardesty

I was fearless because he's just.

Greg Miller

He's no, I think what's true kind of that point is falling out of the plane. It was so unlike anything I had ever done. I did not have a context. And at the beginning we were 10,000ft. So even the distance my, my, you know, my the distance of it felt far, you know, so it just felt like wind was blowing in my face.

Greg Miller

I actually had to get closer to the ground and actually see that we were falling, that I could start to put it into context. And again, I think what happens is this new information is coming at us and we have no context to put it in. Our depth perception is blurred, our ability to see clearly is distorted. And so it does take time for that reality to catch up with us.

Elizabeth Hardesty

Absolutely. An example in my own life is my father passed away around about eight months ago now. And, that has been a hard reality. And I, I've told someone last week, like, every morning I wake up and it's the first thought that reality of, okay, that's really true, you know, that.

Randy Evert

That's no.

Elizabeth Hardesty

Longer that really happened.

Greg Miller

Well, and I also hear stories of you wake up the day and you forget it, and then something in the day reminds you that he is no longer with you. And I think that for especially women who have been given this new information about betrayal, it's like they can wake up and maybe for a moment forget this, what's going on in all of a sudden they are consumed with the reality and the experience again.

Greg Miller

So as we're talking about this idea of surrender, I do think it starts with our ability as best as possible to live in the truth. And what's also a part of this is we have a tendency either to swing towards minimizing it and saying it's no big deal. And that's one of the things that we work with men a lot, because it is their tendency to minimize it.

Greg Miller

But the other end of the continuum is to catastrophes it. And one of the ways that we know that we're catastrophizing is that there is no hope. I often say to people, if you're not experiencing hope, somehow you are outside of the truth. But because of who God is, no matter what our circumstances are, there's still hope for us, so we can either minimize it or catastrophes it.

Greg Miller

And one of the most difficult things to do is just to right size it. And another way to say right size, it is just to live in the reality.

Elizabeth Hardesty

Of it and in the moment of it. Right? Like in some ways, just being present to where you are right now, in this moment, the reality of this moment. Right? And what is true in this moment.

Greg Miller

And so as we're talking about surrendering, we talk about living in this reality, knowing that that is going to be challenging, knowing that that's going to take some time. And also part of this is in our reality is getting clear about what we are powerless over. You know, we are big in talking about agency. There's so much that we have agency around, there's so much that we can do, and there's many things in this journey that we are powerless over.

Greg Miller

I am powerless over somebody else's choices. I am powerless over somebody else's circumstances. And in some cases, I'm powerless over my own circumstances. If something came my way that I didn't choose or didn't want. And so the clear I get about my powerlessness, then the clearer I get about what it is that I need to surrender to. But naming that powerlessness is incredibly scary.

Elizabeth Hardesty

Absolutely. And the need to slow all of that down to even become aware of what am I like? Number one? What's my reality? The number two. Yeah, as you said. Like what? In that? Do I have power and choice and agency over and what do I not. Right. Really that serenity prayer of what can I control, what can I not control, and the wisdom to know the difference.

Elizabeth Hardesty

And I think that wisdom, peace, can take some time and discernment. Yeah.

Greg Miller

And again, I may be control. I may be out of control of somebody else's choice. But what I do have some control over is how I'm going to live in my powerlessness over somebody else's choice. That's where that agency peace, comes in. So I may surrender to the fact that I have no power over whatever choice my spouse is going to make.

Greg Miller

But I do have agency as I determine how I want to live, no matter what my spouse's choice may be.

Elizabeth Hardesty

Yeah, yeah, the agency that I can have, the choices that I can make. Yes. And I think it really can become such a prayer. Right. Of first what what is the reality that I need to see and face. And then in that, okay. God, like, what do you have for me? You know, what choices can I make? What what options do I have?

Elizabeth Hardesty

What are you asking me to release? You know, and what are you asking me to take on?

Greg Miller

Right.

Elizabeth Hardesty

Both.

Greg Miller

Yeah. And one of the things that is true is when we are in our anxiety and fear. And, you know, I've, I've heard it said, I say that anxiety and fear are indicators that we perceive ourselves as unsafe. You know, they're kind of like warning lights on the dashboard that something is going on where I don't feel safe in this moment, or I don't perceive myself as safe in this moment.

Greg Miller

And one of the ways we try to create safety is through control. I often tell the minute the workshop is, if anybody's ever called you a controlling person, if they called you a control freak, that simply an indicator of how unsafe you feel in your own life. So the great irony is, what is so counterintuitive is when I am feeling anxious because I feel unsafe, I want to take control.

Greg Miller

And what we're actually talking about is counterintuitive. Instead of trying to take control of something I can't control, it is surrendering to my out of control ness.

Elizabeth Hardesty

Yep, it does feel counterintuitive, and it does feel crazy. And yet it's so powerful.

Greg Miller

It's like when you're driving and you hit ice, you know, they say whatever you're supposed to do. It feels so counterintuitive.

Elizabeth Hardesty

Just.

Greg Miller

Like you want to do everything else.

Elizabeth Hardesty

Go with it. Yeah.

Greg Miller

You want to do everything you can to try to take control of the car that is out of control. And sometimes our lives feel that way.

Randy Evert

When your car goes into a spin, you're supposed to turn in the direction of the spin, right. That kind of sounds like when you get, when you're going to get punched in the face, lean in.

Greg Miller

Yeah.

Elizabeth Hardesty

And there's, there's so many stories. I think another one is like when you're caught in a riptide, right? Like, what do you want to do? You want to try and fight it, right? You want to try and put everything in your power to to fight against it and swim against it. And you're going to wear yourself out, right?

Elizabeth Hardesty

Right. And most likely you're going to go under versus okay, like go with it. And Daniel probably knows better than anyone here because he maybe knows a little bit about that. But, you know, you you go with it and you swim sideways like, don't swimming, rinse the current. Like just kind of trust the flow of where it's taking you.

Elizabeth Hardesty

And eventually you'll be able to get your way back to shore.

Greg Miller

Well, what a powerful thing to say. And that is to to trust where it is taking you. And that's one of the hardest things on this journey, you know, that I again, I use this imagery. It's kind of like when you are whitewater rafting and you're you're going to go where you're going to go. The, the river is going to take you where it's going to take you, it's going to take you downstream.

Greg Miller

However, you still have choices about how you're going to navigate the currents, and the wise person goes with the flow, recognizing that the current is going to win. But I can choose how I want to navigate the rapids so that I can survive the journey. And I think that little bit of wisdom and how to navigate the rapids is so appropriate to what we're talking about, where we're in this situation, where it's going to take us to where we're going, it's going to go.

Greg Miller

And the the choice is, how do I want to move through this.

Elizabeth Hardesty

And what are my options to move through this? You know, I mean, you talked earlier about how when we when we're feeling so unsafe, we want to have control. And I think about that with this, with this analogy of being in the river. It's it's like what are some of my options? What are some of the, the tools I can put on my tool belt that will help me feel safer as I'm going down this river?

Elizabeth Hardesty

Community is a big one, right? I mean, that's that's your life vest having your or, you know, just I mean, just different things that we need along.

Greg Miller

The way. Having a good Whitewater guide, you know, best thing.

Randy Evert

You learned how to swim. Yes.

Greg Miller

And Beth and the boys and I have done a couple of these whitewater trips, and it's great to be there together, but it is very empowering to know there's somebody in the boat with you that has gone down the river many times and knows what they're doing.

Elizabeth Hardesty

They've got a general sense of where we're going. Right?

Greg Miller

Yeah. So there are resources and things that help us go down the river better, but it is kind of surrendering to this is the direction that we're going. And swimming upstream is going to be futile, even though everything in us wants to do that. But trusting and we say this a lot. Trusting the process, trusting where it is taking you, believing that there is still hope no matter what our circumstances are.

Elizabeth Hardesty

Yes, that there is still hope, right? That where it's carrying you is going to be good. And that can be hard to see sometimes along the way.

Greg Miller

Well, and that's why we need other people, especially in the early days who are familiar with the journey. So therefore they can encourage us and support us and have hope for us when we're unable to have hope for ourselves. So I think part of this surrender thing that we've been talking about, and maybe the difference between the acquiescing is in surrendering.

Greg Miller

We get clear about what choices we do have and what choices we don't have. You know, we get clear about where we can apply agency and it can make a difference. And one of the things I believe is that wise adults always have choices. They may not like the choices that they have and the choices that they have.

Greg Miller

May both or all of them may seem really difficult, and we still have choices. So if a person feels trapped, that's a good indication that they're in their survivor and they're not seeing all the choices that they have. And so part of it is recognizing, okay, if I'm going to surrender to this, I got to get clear about what what is what is my circumstance.

Greg Miller

And then I also have to get clear about where am I powerless and where do I have some agency, and how do I want to steward that agency so I can navigate this journey? Well, yeah.

Elizabeth Hardesty

And I think there can be moments where we can feel overwhelmed and not. And it's difficult to see what those choices are. And again, I think where they're a helpful guide is great. Or even just the the safe community of putting it out there. Of what? What are my choices? Right. Like I am I am feeling stuck. I am feeling overwhelmed.

Elizabeth Hardesty

I don't know where to go. And having some others who can maybe even put some potential options on the table. And then we get to kind of assess and attune to. Okay. Like are any of those ringing true for me for just the next the next step. Right.

Greg Miller

Well, working in our context. So an example would be let's say that a wife comes to you in an appointment or in group and says, my husband has decided that he's done enough in recovery. He doesn't want to go to his appointments anymore. He doesn't want to be a part of his group anymore. He thinks he's done.

Greg Miller

I have a lot of anxiety about that because, you know, I still see some things in him that concern me. I just feel overwhelmed or I feel hopeless. What might encouragement look like for her?

Elizabeth Hardesty

Well, this is a very real example that I know that with a few women and it it's powerful to see. I mean, sad not number one. I can validate for them like that. That is a hard place to be in. And I think at first it's permission to grieve that permission to and and quite a few women, they flail against that for a while of, you know, just trying to have that not be the reality is that wishful thinking or hopeful thinking or maybe if I try this, maybe if I say it this way, then he'll be willing to.

Elizabeth Hardesty

And coming to this place finally of oh, okay, I can't, I am powerless. There's nothing I can do or say that will make him to make another person change. Right. Right. And so then it comes back to my own hoop of okay, like accepting what is and what what are my options from here? And I was just talking to a wife here recently who exact same scenario.

Elizabeth Hardesty

And she's doubling down in some things in her own recovery of like, okay, I'm powerless over that. And I have to let him be where he is. But in the meantime, what choices do I have? And so what are some things that are that that are going to be grounding for me and create safety for me and create stability for me and work through some of my traumas.

Elizabeth Hardesty

And so just seeing her just beef up her own recovery, not to be punishing to him, not to be punitive to him, not to teach him a lesson, but to say, okay, like I am powerless over that, but I am not powerless over this.

Greg Miller

Right? Well, one of the things that we have agency to do is to create boundaries. When we are in relationship with someone that we perceive is doing something or making choices that are unsafe. So I may not be able to change what they are doing, but I can begin to create boundaries for myself so that I can find safety in the context of a situation that is unsafe.

Greg Miller

And I do think even that that little bit of shift of what can I do? How do I live in this space is so important when we're helping people find their options, when it feels like they don't have a lot? I think another part of this is living in the reality of today. So what may be true is right now he's resistant right now.

Greg Miller

He's not wanting to do these things, and that doesn't mean that he will always be where he is now. At one point he may change. And we often talk about this future tripping, where part of our anxiety is we're trying to make decisions about what we're going to do in a year, and we don't have all the information we need.

Greg Miller

We don't have a year's worth of information to make that choice. And so sometimes, even to narrow it down, part of surrendering is to make it kind of a right size amount of what am I surrender? I'm surrendering today, you know, and maybe I do need to make some plans based upon if this continues for a week or a month, but to try to live my life in the future, that's part of that control piece where I'm trying to manage outcomes that I don't even know what they're going to be.

Greg Miller

So to be able to just say, okay, this is where he is now, he's not making choices that I think are wise. How do I live in this moment is part of the surrendering?

Elizabeth Hardesty

Absolutely. And I think just to be mindful, this is this applies to every single person who comes through the door here. Right. Like this applies absolutely to women, as you're talking about in their own journey of healing and navigating steps. I'm mindful of the men coming in for the journey workshop coming up. Right? I mean, this very much applies there as well of their own powerlessness around around their sexual behaviors and their addiction and their own accepting the reality of what is.

Elizabeth Hardesty

And they're too not looking out too far into their sobriety and recovery. But just what are some next right steps along the way?

Greg Miller

Right. Well, and, you know, the first step is that surrender step. It's the I admit, my powerlessness over this behavior or this substance. And so a lot of times what can happen is we will misinterpret that in someone. They'll say, well, if I'm powerless over it, you know, I can't stop it. But I want people to understand is I am powerless.

Greg Miller

I am powerless in my addiction, and I am powerful in my recovery. That's where I find my agency. But really understanding the significant role that this has played in my life, the way that it has controlled me, I think is part of the beginning of surrender. And so that's why the first step is admitting our powerlessness and surrendering to that truth in that reality, so that then we can make wise decisions about how we want to live going forward.

Elizabeth Hardesty

To take that power back in some ways, and some wise man, wise woman ways and reclaim right.

Greg Miller

When one thing I think is significant is surrender is not weakness. You know, sometimes, again, we see surrender as this passive thing where we just give ourselves over to something or we acquiesce versus the surrender. Is this empowerment of truth. You know, where I live, in my truth, whatever it is, and I make the wisest decisions I can based upon my understanding of what is going on.

Greg Miller

So for those people out there that may be listening, that is afraid, that surrender means that they've given up, I don't think surrender is giving up. I think surrendering is choosing to move forward with whatever your options and possibilities are.

Elizabeth Hardesty

I think it yes, it is definitely not weakness. It takes a lot of trust. It takes a lot of courage. It takes a lot of bravery to, I think in some ways, like prior finger like our hand, like one finger at a time off of whatever it is we're holding on to and okay, like I'm going to do what I can, but also go with the flow.

Elizabeth Hardesty

And, it's like a secret portal into, like a, I think, a whole new world sometimes. I didn't know there was a world like this, and I've just been trying to swim upstream the whole time. Right. Had no idea if I allow it to carry me. There's where it's going to take me is going to be somewhere unexpected.

Greg Miller

Right? And another image I use in those old Tarzan movies. You know, when Tarzan swinging from vine to vine, there's a place where you have to let go of the old vine so that you can be able to grab the new vine. And that really is an image of surrender that like the idea of I'm holding on to something.

Greg Miller

If if you're trying to figure out where am I struggling to surrender, then I think a great question to ask is where am I clinging on? Where am I holding on? What am I gripping that I'm afraid to let go? And some of it can be, you know, my image. I'm afraid to let go of my image, or I'm afraid to let go of some aspect of my story, or am I'm afraid to let go of my control.

Greg Miller

But until I'm willing to let go, that surrender piece is difficult. And Beth has this magnet on our refrigerator that says something like, either let go or be dragged. You know, and I think that those are options that if we aren't willing to let go of something, it will drag us. And that letting go, I think, is also a part of surrender.

Elizabeth Hardesty

That's that's powerful. And it continues to have so much power over us. Right? We're giving whatever that thing is, whether it's control, whether it's an addiction. We're just continue to give it so much power over us versus flipping that script a little bit. Yeah.

Greg Miller

And I do know that for a lot of men that come to our workshop, one of the things that they're struggling to let go is their image, how they are perceived, their reputation, what people think about them. And I absolutely understand that, we put so much of our sense of value, identity and safety and how other people perceive us.

Greg Miller

But when I get to the place where I'm willing even to surrender and let go of my image, or how somebody else perceives me so that I can be living in truth, that's where I'm going to find the freedom that I desire.

Elizabeth Hardesty

Breakthrough.

Greg Miller

Right?

Elizabeth Hardesty

Yeah.

Greg Miller

Okay.

Elizabeth Hardesty

Yeah.

Randy Evert

Very good. Well, that's a great subject. I didn't think we were going to get into Tarzan quotes out, but always you never know where the podcast is going to take us. We'd like to thank you all for joining us today. We hope that today's podcast has, struck a chord with you and given you some deeper understanding about the subject of surrender.

Randy Evert

We hope that you'll visit our website, Faithful and true.com, where you'll find many resources available to you, as well as additional podcasts such as this one. Too many to count. But many there to help you on your healing journey. We also have the information and online registration available for our three day intensive workshops. We host the Men's Journey workshop every month.

Randy Evert

We have the Women's Journey Workshop quarterly roughly.

Elizabeth Hardesty

Four.

Randy Evert

Times a year. Yep. And then we have two different varieties of our couples Journey workshops. The information for those are all on the website. And you can call our office for the for the registration for those couples journey workshops. The other two are available online. So in the meantime with like to thank you again for joining us.

Randy Evert

We hope that this coming week will be a week for you, is filled with many blessings and with great vision.