Navigating Disruptions in Recovery

Anthony Gonzalez

You know, one of the plans to be really specific here. Greg. If I knew my trip, I was staying at a hotel when I got into the hotel room, if I was able to do this without causing any damage, I would remove the power plug to the television and bring it downstairs and drop it off to the person at the front desk and perhaps get a puzzled look from them.

Anthony Gonzalez

But on the inside, for me, I felt tremendous safety and agency to know that I have options as a wise man when I'm on this trip, and I can follow through on my written plan and have the accountability to help support it.

Randy Evert

Welcome to the Faithful and True podcast. I'm Randy Everett, your co-host. We're here today, as usual, with Doctor Greg Miller, our host. Greg, how are you?

Greg Miller

I'm doing well.

Randy Evert

It's good. Good to see you. And it's also good to have one of our valued team members. Anthony Gonzalez

is joining us today on the podcast, and we're going to be talking about maintaining our recovery when our routine gets disrupted.

Greg Miller

Absolutely. You know, one of the things that we encourage men to do in recovery is to create a routine that supports their recovery. So to regularly be able to see their counselor, to regularly participate in groups in person and online. And so the more that we have a routine, the more it supports our recovery. But what's true is every once in a while, because of the nature of life, that routine needs to be interrupted or is interrupted.

Greg Miller

And what's true is for a lot of men, that increases their vulnerability to relapse and falling back into some old patterns. So we are going to be talking about this idea of, okay, when my routine is disrupted, how do I maintain some patterns so that I can continue my recovery?

Anthony Gonzalez

That's right. And I think it's good to have a starting point of recognizing that often and faithful and true, we use the image of the three circles, right? So we have this center circle that's red, and that's where we would say these are the things we want to abstain from. Right. So where our addiction lies and we use the acronym lamp lies adultery masturbation pornography in that red circle.

Anthony Gonzalez

Then we've got the yellow circle outside of that, which is where we find ourselves. Maybe when we're triggered, this could be uncomfortable emotions, or this could be something that we see that was triggering, or maybe even something we smell that brings us back to memories. They're not necessarily acting out, but it's certainly, if not dealt with, will lead to the red circle.

Anthony Gonzalez

And then on the outside we've got the green circle. These are the things that we do that help us grow. It's not just what we're abstaining from in the red, but what are we growing towards in the green? This is living into the vision that God has for us. This is engaging in community. Oh, things you just talked about a moment ago, Greg.

Anthony Gonzalez

Right. Being in our recovery, group therapy, etc.. So those things are important to have in place. But when life gets disrupted, that can affect our circles. And maybe we find ourselves in the yellow because of a disruption.

Greg Miller

Well, and part of it is one of the best ways to understand the yellow is the yellow is anything that makes me to wanting to act out. So like you said, it could be triggers. It could be unprocessed emotions. It can be circumstances. But if I'm feeling vulnerable, that's something that I need to pay attention to. And when my schedule is disrupted, that's one of the things that creates vulnerability.

Greg Miller

And for those of you that get and read the newsletter, you know that our most recent newsletter, Anthony, had written an article on how to maintain recovery when you're traveling. And so we want to expand on that, because we do know that traveling, either for business or personally can be a disruption to our schedule. But there can be other things.

Greg Miller

Sometimes it can be sickness. I work with a lot of men, and when they are not feeling well, when they don't do their normal routine, that creates vulnerability. And so we just want to pay attention to any of the things that might disrupt our vulnerability. I mean, it could be not just my sickness, but the family. Somebody in my family is sick.

Greg Miller

And so how do I maintain my commitment and do what I can do when what I typically do may not be available, right?

Anthony Gonzalez

And the timing of this recording, I think, is intentional as well. Right now it's early December, so it's the kind of holiday season where maybe our schedules do get disrupted a bit more than usual because of traveling or hosting family or more events than usual in the evenings. And that could, if we're not careful, lead us back into maybe old patterns of addictive behaviors.

Anthony Gonzalez

Perhaps being around our family of origin or extended family members can lower us back into these older roles that we've played. And therefore, if we're not careful, move straight through the yellow and back into the red circle. So yeah, to expand on the travel concept. Certainly what's true for me is in my recovery journey, I found that it was really easy to slip if I was going on a trip on my own, or maybe I was staying home and my wife Brittany was going on a trip.

Anthony Gonzalez

And what was true for me is that often in my normal routine, I had learned to deprive myself so much in the service of others. And that was an unhealthy coping mechanism for me. That's how I, survivor man, would show up in my life, is that I would serve and I would give to the point where I'm neglecting my own needs, only to find that when I would travel or someone else is traveling, that would become the opportunity to maybe binge and maybe justify in my head, making up for all the times I deprived myself and therefore my addiction really came back strong during times of travel.

Anthony Gonzalez

So I had to become really intentional on one in my normal routine. Am I meeting my legitimate needs in legitimate ways? And when I go traveling, do I have things in place that continue to help me live into the green circle?

Greg Miller

Right? Well, one of the things I think is helpful is to be clear about what the vulnerabilities are when we travel. So you mentioned going and seeing family many times, especially around the holidays. Being with our family can be fun, can be enjoyable, but is also very stressful. And if historically I've used my acting out to medicate my anxiety, to try to soothe and comfort me, then being in a stressful environment is going to be a place where I may be tempted again.

Greg Miller

And what can also be true is if I travel for business, maybe I'm going to a big sales meeting, maybe I'm meeting with a client and there's a lot of expectation or pressure that's put on that particular meeting. And again, I'm back in my anxiety and my stress. And again, if I have an old coping strategy that I use to medicate my stress, I will be vulnerable again.

Greg Miller

So part of the strategy is simply to be self aware of what is involved in the travel. What is true is traveling itself is stressful. The being at the airport, the waiting to see if your flight is going to be on time, the worrying about connections. We work with a lot of couples who are very different people, and that really can be highlighted in travel.

Greg Miller

Am I've heard of couples that have different routines in the airport, and what they've learned to do is give each other space to kind of be in their routine. There's the person who wants to be there two hours before the flight, and the person comfortable arriving 20 minutes before the flight leaves. And so sometimes just even the way that we travel can be a point of stress and vulnerability.

Greg Miller

So we want to pay attention to that.

Anthony Gonzalez

And then the next step in my mind, in addition to becoming self aware, is actually writing out a plan, anticipating what could be the potential pitfalls of this trip and maybe what are the intentional things I want to do to prevent those, or focus on what my greater purpose isn't going. What's true for a lot of guys is maybe especially if they traveled a lot in their work, and that was part of their acting out in their addiction, then preparing for a trip can be really triggering, not just for the, the recover the man or recovery, but maybe for the spouse and the couple and therefore coming up with a plan.

Anthony Gonzalez

What is my stated purpose? What are the dates of the trip? Where will I be staying? Who will I be visiting? These are the people I'm not going to be visiting. These are not the things that I'm doing right. Also having kind of that same three circle plan, but for the trip and being very specific. And what this does is it not only helps create safety for the man in recovery to know this is my plan, but it also contributes towards being trustworthy in the couple shift.

Anthony Gonzalez

Many times when I was preparing for a trip. Brittany would kind of not want to ask, but wanted to ask. Hey, what? What's your plan? And if I didn't have one, then that would raise the alarms and hurt. That would be triggering for her. So over time, I learned to take initiative and write out a plan and present it to her.

Anthony Gonzalez

But not only her, because she didn't want to be the only person to know the plan, but also present it to my counselor, to my recovery group, to my sponsor accountability partner, so that it's a communal experience and that I have a broad base of support so that I have check ins, maybe in the morning and in the evening with people.

Anthony Gonzalez

You know, one of the plans to be really specific here. Great. If I knew in my trip I was staying at a hotel when I got into the hotel room, if I was able to do this without causing any damage, I would remove the power plug to the television and bring it downstairs and drop it off to the person at the front desk and perhaps get a puzzled look from them.

Anthony Gonzalez

But on the inside, for me, I felt tremendous safety and agency to know that I have options as a wise man when I'm on this trip, and I can follow through on my written plan and have the accountability to help support it.

Greg Miller

Yeah, and part of what's true is kind of like what you're talking about is the plan. I look at the resources that I have back home, and I wonder, how can I take these with me? You know, one of the great things that we have is so many online resources now, so I can stay connected to my group.

Greg Miller

I have lots of men that when they travel, one of the things that they do is they still set aside the group time so that they can be available, and it is incredibly helpful. If I'm actually on a trip and able to meet with my community, it reinforces my recovery. Sometimes when I would travel, I would intentionally set an appointment with my counselor so they knew that I could have that appointment.

Greg Miller

And that would help to create safe a safety. And I can think specifically, there are certain environments that are triggering for me and triggering for a variety of different reasons. They don't have to necessarily be triggering sexually, but they can trigger anxiety. They can trigger shame, they can trigger insecurities, all of the things that can create vulnerability. And so to be intentional, to set up support while I'm gone can be very, very important.

Greg Miller

And the other thing, when I'm working with a guy that travels for work or is traveling to be sure and include the guys in his community on the trip. Am I regularly encourage them to take photos? You know, if you're on a family vacation and you're experiencing something that is amazing and beautiful, take a photo of it and share that with your community.

Greg Miller

If you just want to check in about where you are in the hotel, or if you need to check in about what's going on at a meeting. The beautiful thing about technology is, for many of us, it was what led us to acting out or provided an opportunity to act out. And when we steward it well, it can absolutely support our recovery.

Anthony Gonzalez

I think that what you said earlier about groups is a great plug for our virtual process groups via zoom. Right. So if we have any listeners today who are looking for a group and want to join one, then we want to encourage you to visit the workshop, which will brandy as great as always telling us about it and reminding us of it.

Anthony Gonzalez

But through the workshops, you also get plugged into the groups that we have available through Faithful and True. Another quick tip that I thought about is with the check ins that you may have, I've had with guys when I traveled, but I also check in with my wife. And one of the things we talk about as a check in is, you know, so the F is for feelings, the A is affirmations, the N is needs, the is ownership, and the S is sobriety.

Anthony Gonzalez

In her case she would share maybe self-care and we would check in with each other regularly using fan. And it was kind of a way to reassure that I'm operating in my recovery and sobriety. But I'm not just stating that I'm avoiding behaviors, but I'm also aware of my feelings and my needs and taking ownership for things. So it's not just the top of the iceberg, but we're working our way down that iceberg throughout the trip, so we're staying attuned to what's going on inside of us, not just outside of us.

Greg Miller

Absolutely. And again, you know, I think it doesn't matter what kind of travel it is, it can be triggering. So, you know, we have mentioned business travel as something that can be stressful as you're trying to get your job done or meet certain goals. It can also be personal travel, taking a vacation. And what's interesting is we would think, why would I be vulnerable on a vacation?

Greg Miller

Because that's about relaxing that you kind of alluded to this, where what can happen is when I slow down all the stuff that I've been ignoring, all of the stuff that I've not been acknowledged or all the things I've been distracted from because of my busyness can start to surface. So I'm laying, you know, on the beach or I'm hiking through the forest and my mind has some space.

Greg Miller

And what ends up happening is maybe some old heard, some old grief, some old sadness, and maybe my anxiety starts to surface. And especially if I've been in recovery for a while and I do have access to my emotions, they can begin to surface. And I think that's why when we are on vacation and we are with our spouse or with a strong community, we are regularly checking in about what's getting triggered in us and what surfacing in.

Greg Miller

You know, inside. We can share that we're anxious, we can share that we're feeling sad. And this can especially be true when we're connecting with family. And I know that for a lot of couples, being with family is part of what is triggering, especially as we're in recovery and processing some old pain. And so it is helpful for couples to be very intentional to have a check in while they are together with family and friends, like you said, is a great way to do that.

Greg Miller

And checking in with your guys, using Thanos as a tool to connect with your community while you're visiting family, and especially if your your community knows your story, knows some of the challenges in your relationships with your family, they can be very supportive in that point.

Anthony Gonzalez

The community can also be a safe place to brainstorm options when you visit your family of origin. So what I find is I will drift back into old rules and survivor man, if I don't maybe prepare a little bit, maybe some talking points or questions I want to ask when I'm around certain family members, and so I could even volley back and forth and brainstorm.

Anthony Gonzalez

Hey, what are some good things I can ask my brother when I see him? In light of what you guys know about our story, or my mom and dad or so. Just using community to help prepare so that you can operate from your wise man while visiting family. Now, Greg, we've talked a lot about travel and, I'm thinking about another form of disruption that can happen.

Anthony Gonzalez

And it's days where illness shows.

Greg Miller

Up.

Anthony Gonzalez

When we get sick. So how how can we go through sick days without slip days?

Greg Miller

Well, one of the things that I think is true is physically not feeling well is something that creates a vulnerability. You know, if we have used our acting out to comfort us, to soothe ourselves, to meet our needs in this illegitimate way, well, when we are sick, we are more vulnerable because we're not feeling well. We want to be comforted.

Greg Miller

We want to be sued. And what's interesting is when we are ill as an adult, when we feel sick as an adult, whatever associations we have with being sick as a child does also surface. And so in some families, if you were sick, you were supposed to just kind of push through it. You were supposed to suck it up, you weren't supposed to whine about it.

Greg Miller

And for those children, you learn to take care of yourself by yourself. And that creates that vulnerability to wanting to act out in some way in other family systems, maybe there was a lot of healthy nurture and safety that was created in illness. And maybe you feel alone and isolated now when you feel sick. And so you want to try to recreate some old comfort through this old means.

Greg Miller

So I think the first thing is just to recognize being sick can create vulnerability. And we need to pay attention to how that shows up. And I think one of the best things that we can do is to be clear about our needs. So, you know, if you listen to our podcast, you've heard us say that addiction occurs when we're trying to meet a legitimate need in an illegitimate way, in a repetitive pattern.

Greg Miller

Well, being sick emphasizes our need fulness, and hopefully we have relationships with people that we can express a need, trusting if they are able, they will meet that need. And so asking for some additional support. I'm asking people to check on you and maybe it is a very physical need, I need soup or can someone just bring me some soda to settle my stomach?

Greg Miller

But it's amazing how many people are uncomfortable talking about basic needs. And the more I'm not talking about the needs, the more vulnerable I am to try to meet those needs in an illegitimate way.

Anthony Gonzalez

You know, I think this is a good time to set this reminder in place, and I share this with the guys that I meet with, especially in light of one story. Maybe they grew up with the certain rules that to have needs shows weakness. And so even to share our needs or ask for what we need could be perceived as a sign of weakness.

Anthony Gonzalez

But what I want to propose to our listeners today is that asking for what you need is not a sign of weakness. On the other hand, asking for what you need is a sign of strength. It's a sign that you become aware and attuned to what your needs are, and have the courage to express those needs to those around you.

Anthony Gonzalez

Now, the people around you may not have the capacity to meet those needs. Perhaps. Perhaps not. But even having the ability to identify it and articulate it is an evidence of strength in the recovery journey.

Greg Miller

Right. And what may be true is let's say you're early in recovery. You are married. And yet, because of the betrayal, your spouse really isn't available to meet those needs. It's not that she's being mean. It's not that she's being selfish. It's just that the nature of the relationship, there's a vulnerability that comes in this, and she's just not safe in that yet.

Greg Miller

Well, in that case, again, this was community comes in where I'm able to reach out to the men in my life and express some of the needs that I have. Maybe they can drop off some chicken soup or soda, or just check on me and see how I'm doing. One of the things that is interesting is when we are sick, one of the things that surfaces is all of our old family rules about asking for help or not feeling well, and for people who grew up in a home where you're not supposed to be a bother, it's difficult to ask for your need.

Greg Miller

Or maybe you grew up in a home where you are never supposed to complain or wine. You know, don't be a weiner. Well, to simply say I'm not feeling well doesn't mean I'm whining. I'm just naming my need. I'm speaking my truth. What can also be true is for some men, they are so detached from their bodies they would be like disembodied, and they're not even aware of how poorly they are feeling.

Greg Miller

I know a lot of people that were taught just push through it, you know, make it happen. And when we work and not feel well, sometimes it makes it worse. So part of this work is getting present with yourself to even evaluate how you are feeling. And with that, begin to ask for your needs.

Anthony Gonzalez

Yeah. So one of the things that I'm keenly aware of is that oftentimes I would get sick because I have worked myself to the bone and have not been aware of my needs, and therefore, in my sickness, would find myself triggered because there had been a pattern that sickness raises, that unmet need maybe to be nurtured, to be cared for.

Anthony Gonzalez

And at some point in my story I have sexualized meeting that need. Right. And I've sought to self soothe. So now as I'm in recovery, it's been helpful for me to be keenly aware that when I feel that elevated sense of desire to be nurtured, I have to recognize that sex is no longer that solution. For that, I need to find a healthier solution for that.

Anthony Gonzalez

And part of what's also true is not working myself to the point where now I'm depleted and I need rest, and now the sickness comes upon me because my immune system has become so depleted. But instead, on the other hand, to work from my rest. So one of the things that this is getting a little bit into, like maybe biblical and theological background here, but when God created everything in six days, he made man and woman on this sixth day.

Anthony Gonzalez

And that means the first complete day that they had was on the seventh day, the Sabbath. So man's first full day with God was a day of rest. And then from there the narrative goes on. And part of the Hebrew calendar also considers the day commences at sunset. That's when the day starts, when you are resting. And then the other half of the day continues in the day.

Anthony Gonzalez

So there is this cycle, there is this rhythm of rest and then work. And therefore we are to work from our rest rather than rest from our work. And I think illness is one of the things that can show up when we are working ourselves to the point in which we finally become aware that we need the rest, as opposed to the other way around.

Greg Miller

Yeah. You know, what you're talking about is something that we're aware of, and that is a large percentage of the men who come to our workshop. Not only do they struggle with sex addiction, but they also struggle with workaholism. And it is this idea that I'm going to try to find my value, identity and safety in my work.

Greg Miller

And again, workaholism isn't about how much I work. It's about why I work. But if I'm trying to get my value, identity and safety from my work, then it makes sense that there's going to be this addictive, compulsive energy that goes along with that. I so one of the things that can happen is if I'm traveling, if I'm on my vacation, if I'm not feeling well, if I'm not working in the rhythm that I'm used to, then for that work rhythm to be disruptive also creates a greater vulnerability to wanting to act out in other ways.

Greg Miller

And I know for a lot of men that come to our workshop, one of the gifts their recovery gives them is the ability to rest, is their ability to go on vacation is ability to take time for themselves. And so in the early days of recovery, it can be a double whammy of if I'm taking time off because I'm going on vacation or I'm not feeling well, then I'm not working, which means I'm not, you know, medicating with work, which creates a greater vulnerability to medicate in some way, which then could be my sexual acting out.

Greg Miller

So we we have to pay attention to how these disruptions, whatever they may be, the changes in our routine land in us and how they impact us.

Anthony Gonzalez

So, I suppose to summarize, when we're faced with a disruption and how do we maintain our recovery, it's important to recognize become self aware of how we've moved into the yellow circle. Maybe. What are some of the false core beliefs being stirred up because of this disruption? And how do we maintain community, close, safe, intimate community? Help us through it to have a really strategic plan to help us stay in the green and and have grace towards self, kindness towards ourselves, especially if it's illness that's causing the disruption.

Greg Miller

Well, and you started with the three circle plans we talked about, you know, the red circle, the yellow circle. But what's also true is the goal is to move and live in that green circle. That's part of the question is, even if some disruption is going on, whether it's travel for work or maybe it's the travel to go see family, maybe it's not feeling well and being sick.

Greg Miller

What does it look like for me to experience some greenness in that time? I'm so even if I'm on a stressful work trip, is there something that I can do that nurtures my body and my soul? Maybe it is to take time to just go down to the fitness center and, you know, walk or run on the treadmill.

Greg Miller

Or maybe it is to really enjoy a meal or go back to something that is comforting and soothing, that is more healthy. If I am with family, what are some of the things that I can enjoy on my vacation with my family? That is life giving? But it's interesting how when we are intentionally and we are aware that we are choosing the green, that choice moves us further away from the red.

Greg Miller

Now sometimes we stumble into the green, which is always fun. We love stumbling into the green, but there is an empowerment that comes when we choose the green in the midst of some of the chaos that might be going on. I would also say that sometimes in the busyness of life, that green is not always available, but even acknowledging that it's missing helps to create safety.

Greg Miller

Because I'm more self-aware. If I'm in one of those stressful things where I just need to hunker down for a while and get through, that's okay. As long as I know that this isn't sustainable and it's sometimes I will need to choose green and bring green into my life.

Anthony Gonzalez

So perhaps a good bottom line here is disruption of life does not have to be a disruption to recovery.

Randy Evert

Absolutely great pointy end on there, Anthony. Greg. Thanks very much, Anthony. Thank you very much. It's been great to have both of you with us today and the Faithful and True podcast. We'd like to thank all of our viewers and listeners who have joined us today. We hope that today's podcast has been beneficial to you, and that the message comes across in a very helpful way for you.

Randy Evert

We're recording this in mid-December. We're just on the doorstep of Christmas celebrations, and so we want to wish all of our viewers and friends out there a very Merry Christmas. May it be a time of true blessing for you and your families. In the meantime, we invite you to visit our website, Faithful and true.com, where you'll find many additional podcasts such as this one to watch and listen and enjoy.

Randy Evert

We also have many resources on our website, and you can learn about the programs here at Faithful and True. You can also see the information and online registration for our three day intensive workshops. Every month we do the Men's Journey Workshop. It's a three day event. A Thursday through Saturday. We have the Women's Workshop coming up in January.

Randy Evert

That also is a three day event. And then we also have two different varieties of our couples journey workshops. The information and how to register for those events are all on our website. We invite you to check all of that out. In the meantime, we want to wish you and your family a very Merry Christmas, and we hope that this coming week for you as a week that's filled with many blessings and with great patient.