Lets Get Curious With Special Guest Jay Stringer

Curiosity, Desire, and Healing: A Conversation with Greg Miller and Jay Stringer

Editor’s Note: This transcript has been lightly edited for clarity, readability, and flow.

One of the most important principles we teach in our workshops is this: curiosity is not bad. In fact, without curiosity, there is no faith.

Curiosity invites us to explore what we do not yet understand. At Faithful & True, we encourage the men and women who come through our programs to become curious about their lives—to ask questions like, Why do I do what I do? and Why am I drawn to what I’m drawn toward?

As Mark Laaser often taught, our fantasies can be a messenger from the soul. They may be telling us something about a legitimate need we have been trying to meet through some kind of sexual experience. The goal is not to indulge fantasy, but to engage it. With the right help, resources, and stewardship, curiosity can become a pathway to healing.

Introduction

Randy Everett:
Welcome to the Faithful & True Podcast. I’m Randy Everett, your co-host. Today we’re featuring Dr. Greg Miller, our usual host, in a conversation with therapist and author Jay Stringer.

Many of our listeners already know Jay from his book Unwanted. In this conversation, Greg and Jay discuss Jay’s upcoming book, Desire, along with the deeper themes of curiosity, desire, healing, and transformation.

Here is their conversation.

The Conversation

Greg Miller:
Welcome to the Faithful & True Podcast. I’m Greg Miller, and today I’m very fortunate to have Jay Stringer with me. Jay is the author of Unwanted, and I know many of our listeners are very familiar with that book. We’re excited to have him with us to talk about his own journey, where he is in life right now, and his new book that will be released soon. So welcome, Jay.

Jay Stringer:
Greg, it is so good to be with you. Thank you for having me on the Faithful & True Podcast.

Greg Miller:
To get started, I’d love for you to catch us up on where you are and what you’re doing now beyond finishing the book. How do you spend your time? What’s your focus right now?

Jay Stringer:
I currently live in New York City. My family and I moved from Seattle to New York in August of 2020, which was a strange time to move there. When everybody else seemed to be moving out of Manhattan, we were moving in.

A friend once joked that it was like seeing a hurricane coming through Florida, with all the cars heading north on I-95, except for a few strange cars driving south. He said, “You were that car.” And that’s exactly what it felt like. We made the decision to move into the city at a very unusual time.

I’m a psychotherapist, a husband, and a father to two children—one almost thirteen and one almost eleven. Beyond being an author and therapist, though, I also feel like I’ve been going through my own kind of midlife reckoning. I wouldn’t call it a crisis exactly. I don’t feel like I’m about to sabotage my life in some dramatic way. But there is a sense of asking deeper questions, something a bit like The Odyssey: What is home? What matters? What am I waking up to in this season?

I find myself crying often—about pain, about the past, about the future. There is a sense of sitting in something deep and unsettled. In some ways, this new book has intensified that process in me. It is a much broader and deeper exploration than Unwanted. It deals with our relationship to desire, and it has really worked on me as I’ve been writing it.

I felt comfortable writing Unwanted because I knew my own story of outgrowing pornography, and I knew what the research had shown. But this book—and perhaps midlife itself—has taken me into deeper waters than I anticipated.

Greg Miller:
I think we all go through seasons of awakening. Sometimes a major change comes, sometimes something small shifts, but either way we begin to see ourselves differently. We start seeing old realities through a new lens, and then we’re invited to decide what we’re going to do with what we discover.

I appreciate the way you described it. It doesn’t have to be a full-blown crisis. We don’t have to blow up our lives. But there is an invitation to consider who we are, what we want to prioritize, and how we want to live. How we steward those moments matters.

Jay Stringer:
Yes. There’s a neuroscientist at Johns Hopkins named Gül Dölen who talks about the idea of a “critical period.” Sometimes critical periods come through crisis, but sometimes we can choose to enter them. I think that’s part of what I’m doing right now—stepping intentionally into a critical period without requiring a crisis to force it.

Some of this connects to my own family of origin. In many ways, I think I’ve functioned like a therapist since I was seven or eight years old. I was always paying attention to the patterns in my family. What did my mom need? What did my dad need? How could I bring perspective, presence, or peace into the system?

That role served me well for a long time. But now I’m asking: Am I free in that role? I don’t think I’m going to stop being a therapist, but I do want to examine what the second half of life is going to look like. I want to enter this next chapter with intention.

Greg Miller:
I think some people are observers and some are experiencers. Observers have the gift of stepping back, seeing patterns, and drawing conclusions. Experiencers are more immersed in the moment. They live life from the inside and may find it harder to step back.

The invitation, I think, is to become a little of both. We need to observe our lives, but we also need to live them. For those of us who naturally observe, the invitation to fully experience life can be very challenging.

Jay Stringer:
That’s a really helpful way to say it. We don’t want only to analyze life or offer perspective on it. We also want to ask: How does my body come alive? How does my life come alive?

Curiosity and Research

Greg Miller:
You’ve done research for both Unwanted and now for Desire. Have you always been drawn to research?

Jay Stringer:
I don’t really think of myself as a researcher so much as someone who is deeply curious. I like asking questions. I like figuring things out.

This actually connects back to Faithful & True and to Mark Laaser. When I first signed the contract for Unwanted—I think it was around 2015—the book didn’t come out until 2018. That gap gave me time to think about what else I wanted to do. One of my friends asked if I had considered doing original research to test the ideas I was developing.

At that time, I had come across one of Mark’s lines—I don’t remember the exact wording—but it was something like, Our fantasies are not something to be ashamed of; they may be our greatest teachers. That line stayed with me. It resonated with what I was already seeing clinically: there is meaning embedded in the deepest places of shame.

So I reached out to Mark to ask about doing research, what that might look like, and whether Faithful & True might help distribute the survey instrument I was developing. Mark really encouraged me. He said that if I could get an original study with even 500 people, it could be a complete game changer for the field.

That encouragement meant a lot. It helped me test what I was seeing anecdotally and build a stronger foundation for the book. Looking back, I’m really grateful for Mark’s mind and for his push to validate these ideas.

Why Curiosity Matters

Greg Miller:
I think one of the challenges in many faith communities is that people are taught to fear curiosity. But one of the core things we teach is that curiosity is not bad. In fact, without curiosity there is no faith.

Curiosity is what invites us to explore the things we don’t yet understand. That’s why we encourage men and women at Faithful & True to ask questions like, Why do I do what I do? and Why am I drawn to what I’m drawn toward?

As you mentioned, one of Mark’s central beliefs was that our fantasies are messengers from the soul. They may be trying to tell us something about what we need. That’s why it’s so important to engage our fantasies rather than merely fear them. We don’t indulge them—but we do engage them. With the right help and resources, they can reveal legitimate needs we’ve been trying to meet in unhealthy ways.

Jay Stringer:
Yes. And I think Scripture is full of this kind of curiosity. When Adam eats from the tree, God’s question is not accusation—it is, Where are you? To Jacob, the question is, What is your name? To Hagar, who has been deeply traumatized, the question is, Where have you come from, and where are you going?

If we are listening to the voice of God, I think it often sounds like curiosity. It sounds like invitation. It invites us to understand where we come from, where we are, and where we are going.

Even literature reflects this. In Harry Potter, the Mirror of Erised—desire spelled backward—reveals what is deepest in a person’s heart. Harry sees family because as an orphan, what he longs for is belonging and integration. Ron sees himself as extraordinary, because he has grown up overshadowed and wants significance. The mirror reveals something true.

That’s the invitation of curiosity: to look honestly at what is reflected back to us. If God were to come looking for us, what question might He ask? Curiosity will take us much farther than despair, willpower, or accountability structures alone.

God Moves Toward Us in Love

Greg Miller:
One of the most important shifts for many people is realizing that when God moves toward us, He is not moving toward us in accusation, but in love.

A lot of people were taught to assume that God’s questions are rooted in challenge, shame, or disappointment. But when God asks, Where are you? it is not an accusation. It is an invitation. It is a loving invitation to awareness.

I often think about those maps that say, You are here. Many of us are not very good at identifying where we actually are. We struggle with self-awareness. So this whole journey is about awakening—waking up to where we are, and hearing the invitation toward where we might be.

The same is true with desire. Many of us were taught to fear our desires, yet Scripture also speaks of the desires of the heart. Often desire points us toward what is missing, toward what we were made for, toward something good that longs to be restored or developed.

About the Book Desire

Greg Miller:
Tell us about your new book, Desire. How did it evolve, and what are you hoping it will do?

Jay Stringer:
After Unwanted came out, I began receiving emails from people all over the world asking me to help interpret their sexual fantasies. Some jokingly called me “the porn whisperer.” It was funny, but it also told me something important: the book had awakened curiosity. People were asking, Why do I do what I do?

To me, that is a deeply transformative question. The problem is that many Christian environments do not offer much real discipleship around sexuality. They don’t help people understand what is happening inside the sexual mind—how trauma, family of origin, early exposure to pornography, or relational dynamics shape our arousal and desire.

Part of what Unwanted helped show is that our fantasies and struggles are not random. They often reveal patterns of trauma, heartache, family history, and longing. They can become a roadmap to healing.

But with Desire, I wanted to go wider. I wanted to ask: How do we intentionally form desire? In some Christian settings, people are taught to suppress desire. In more progressive spaces, people are told to simply follow desire. But neither framework really teaches us how to develop desire in healthy ways.

So this book asks: How do we form desire into something that becomes a source of connection, purpose, intimacy, pleasure, and love?

We did a great deal of research around questions like: What are the healthiest couples doing? What are people with satisfying marriages, meaningful work, healthy intimacy, and a strong sense of purpose doing differently?

This book is for people struggling with unwanted sexual behavior, yes—but it’s also for anyone asking what it means to be fully alive as a human being.

Naming Desire

Greg Miller:
What I hear in that is an invitation to learn the language of desire. So many people can tell us what they don’t want, but they struggle to name what they do want.

At our workshops, we often say it’s not enough just to leave something. You also have to move toward something. Sometimes what fuels sexual acting out is that something meaningful in a person’s life became sexualized. Freedom, for example, is a common one. A person may not simply be seeking sex—they may be seeking freedom, and sexual acting out becomes the distorted expression of that desire.

There is nothing wrong with having the desire. The question is whether we can name it and steward it.

Jay Stringer:
Exactly. If someone grows up in a rigid family, they may feel powerless and deeply humiliated. That doesn’t just disappear. So when pornography offers a momentary experience of freedom, power, or access, it can become powerfully compelling.

That’s why unwanted sexual behavior is not just about lust. Sometimes it is about the experience of freedom, power, or relief that a person has never known elsewhere.

And honestly, this is one of the reasons I sometimes want to shake not only the church, but also some recovery communities. So much addiction language frames desire as something dangerous that must always be feared and suppressed. But the purpose of recovery is not to kill off desire. The purpose of recovery is to cultivate what is good, beautiful, and true.

If your backyard has no weeds but also nothing growing, that isn’t flourishing. That’s a desert. Recovery is not just about eliminating weeds. It is about growing a garden.

Yes, there will be weeds. But the point is not fear. The point is tending something beautiful.

The Invitation of Desire

Greg Miller:
Recovery is not just giving up a behavior. It is becoming the person God created you to be. Desire is central to that. Many of us have lived under fear and shame for so long that we assume pleasure is dangerous. But we would never grow a garden if we were afraid of weeds.

We need strategies for the weeds, yes—but we were created for more than fear. We were created for beauty, pleasure, and abundance.

Jay Stringer:
I think that’s why it can be so powerful to go back to earlier parts of life and ask: Where did I come alive? What stirred me? What awakened something in me as a child, as a teenager, as an adult?

Those early desires may not always be literal, but they are often deeply revealing. Maybe you wanted to be an astronaut or a musician or an athlete. The deeper meaning may be that you wanted adventure, beauty, freedom, exploration, or expression.

Those are clues.

I love Annie Dillard’s line: I never knew I was a bell until the moment I was lifted up and struck.

That’s one of my favorite images for retreats and intensives. Where have you had those bell-like moments in your life—those moments when something in you rang true? Maybe it was around family, friendship, a meal, a conversation, Scripture, nature, creativity, or embodied joy. Those moments matter. God uses them to remind us who we are and what He has placed within us.

Closing Thoughts

Greg Miller:
I love that image. When our bell is being rung—when we are fully alive, fully present, fully engaged in the life we were created for—that brings God pleasure.

Many people have been taught that pleasure itself is dangerous, superficial, or suspect. But pleasure can be deeply redemptive. God delights when we are living the abundant life we were made for.

Before we close, is there anything else you’d want listeners to know as they anticipate the release of Desire?

Jay Stringer:
I would say this: approach the book thoughtfully and with openness, because I really do believe it has the potential to transform people’s lives.

The book uses a five-part framework around five core desires: wholeness, personal growth, intimacy, pleasure, and meaning. It is meant to help people grow a stronger sense of self and a healthier understanding of what they long for.

One important theme running through the book is differentiation. A healthy symphony only works when each instrument knows what it is and does its part well. In the same way, healthy intimacy and community require a strong sense of self. We don’t create real unity through conformity. We create it through distinct people learning how to bring themselves into connection.

That is true in marriage, friendship, church, and community. If we do not know who we are, we cannot truly love well.

Greg Miller:
That’s such an important point. Community is not conformity. We cannot truly be with others if we cannot first be with ourselves. We cannot be with God if we cannot be with ourselves.

As people read your book, I hope they will hear the invitation in it. And I also hope they will pay attention to their resistance. Resistance can reveal just as much as desire does. It can become another place of curiosity.

Jay Stringer:
Yes. There is always resistance when we step toward something new. But that’s often a sign that we are on the edge of meaningful growth. We may know we cannot go back, but we may not yet know how to move forward. That in-between place can be uncomfortable, but it is often where transformation begins.

Greg Miller:
Jay, thank you so much for being with us and sharing your time. We’re excited for the release of your book, and we’re grateful for the work you’ve done in the areas of sexual health, recovery, and transformation.

Jay Stringer:
Thank you, Greg. It’s been a joy.

Outro

Thank you for joining us for this conversation on the Faithful & True Podcast. We hope you found this discussion meaningful and encouraging.

To learn more about Faithful & True, including resources, 3-day intensive workshops, and online registration, visit faithfulandtrue.com.

We hope the week ahead is filled with blessing, vision, and continued growth.