Running to Recovery

Greg Miller

And I think that that's another piece of recovery. If I look too far down the road, or if I feel like I've got to have the whole thing figured out. I'm not going to be successful. But if I can just trust that if I'm faithful to what I know, that next right step will be evident when I get there.

Greg Miller

And if I get to the place where I do need to make some decisions and decide which path I'm going to take, if I can just trust, I'm going to have the information I need at that point to make that decision. And so it is always looking down the road at the next right step.

Randy Evert

Welcome to the Faithful and True podcast. I'm Randy Everett, your co-host. We're happy to be back with you again today on the Faithful and True podcast with our usual leader, Greg Miller. Greg, great to see you as always.

Greg Miller

Good to be here.

Randy Evert

Greg is in town to help. Lead. Help lead. Know to lead the Men's Journey workshop here at Faithful and True. And our special guest on today's podcast is the Clinical Director of Faithful and True, the one and only Jim Farm.

Jim Farm

You love saying that? I do say it in such a lyrical well, it's.

Randy Evert

It's such a prestigious title.

Jim Farm

And.

Randy Evert

It's, it's it's a honorable position. So we're happy to have Jim back with us today. And we're going to do two back to back podcast today. And this first one is going to deal with the comparison of running to your recovery. And so.

Greg Miller

Yeah, the timing is great because I just celebrated my second anniversary of running. For those of you that have been around, you may have heard me mention this on another podcast. And one of the things I do want to clarify is even though I've been running for two years, I still do not consider myself a runner. You know, there are certain expectations that go along with that.

Greg Miller

You know, for one, I assume that people who are runners like running and two years into it, I still do not enjoy running. I see the benefit of it. I enjoy it when it's over. I like the sense of satisfaction, but I at this point still don't consider myself a runner even though I run regularly. But I do see a lot of connection.

Greg Miller

And you know, for those of you that aren't familiar with the story, two years ago, my daughter in law asked me, would you like to run the Shamrock Shuffle? It's an AK held in Chicago every year. And I kind naively said, sure, that sounds great. Not really. Ever having run much in my life. And my son downloaded an app because at that point I was naive.

Greg Miller

I didn't know anything about it. I was pretty ignorant. And so he downloaded an app. It was from couch to five K, and it just started with the basics. And at the very beginning you would walk a minute, then run a minute, walk a minute, run a minute, and you just progressed over time. And I really do think that that is kind of the beginning of a correlation with recovery.

Greg Miller

And that is you have to start with where you are, you know, whatever is true for you, whatever your understanding is, whatever your experience is, you start with where you are and you start with the basics, and you allow yourself to be committed to the process.

Jim Farm

Yeah. You know, a few things. You mentioned, Greg, that because I run to and and I started naively like you, so you get in trouble when you start off naively. Yeah. So the one thing that you kind of mentioned is you're kind of invited into this process. It wasn't like you're dragged into it or pushed into it. It was like you had an experienced person that said, hey, seems like you might, you know, enjoy this or this might be good for you, you know, so you had someone who maybe had done this before, so you weren't doing something just out of the blue by yourself.

Greg Miller

Right? Well, and the other piece of it is in this particular daughter in law had ran a marathon, in fact, the first marathon I ever watched, I watched her run the Chicago Marathon. And even all those years ago, it kind of cast that vision. I wonder if that's something that I could do. I also think that another part of the story was my doctor had had my annual physical, and my doctor was asking me or basically telling me, you know, that I needed more aerobic activity and you know, that running was an option.

Greg Miller

So I was also getting this invitation from my family to run. But I was also getting encouragement from my doctor saying this would be good for me. And I think that's one of the things that we need to pay attention to, is when professionals and others in our life are encouraging us towards some sort of health, that we hear that invitation and we choose it.

Greg Miller

You know, I know for a lot of the men that come through our workshop, others may see some things in their life even before they're able to see them, that maybe need to be addressed or need to be paid attention to. And that was certainly true for me when I began running. And so we listened to the others around us.

Greg Miller

We hear the invitation, but we also hear the encouragement or the direction that we have around the need.

Jim Farm

Yeah, it's interesting that, you know, some people would say, well, let's just go run the marathon, right? You know, not recognizing, well, you might have to build up before you can get to that place of running the marathon. It's kind of.

Randy Evert

That I've got the walk a minute part time. Yeah. Interest.

Jim Farm

Yeah. Yeah. You don't go from nothing to the whole thing right out of the gate. And then like that, you know, you got that couch. What was it called? The couch.

Greg Miller

From couch to five K.

Jim Farm

So it was a plan. It was like, this is how you get to the five K. You're not going to just go from the couch to the marathon. Let's start with the five K. But there's a lot of steps there that get you there. And that's kind of like recovery. You know we have some guys that are like, well, let's just get this recovery done this week and.

Jim Farm

Right. You know. Yeah.

Greg Miller

And and part of that is recognizing like again with that app, it was very directive. You know, on my own I would not have figured it out. And on my own I might have tried to do too much or I might have also tried to do too little. But every day there was a direction. There was a number of days I was supposed to do it.

Greg Miller

And then obviously as time progressed, there was more running than walking. You know, it went eventually to two, you know, two minutes running, one minute walking, and then it just progressed from there. The distances increased. And what's really true is if I look down the road and thought about running five miles or ten miles, that would have been intimidating.

Greg Miller

But in the early days, I could do what they were asking me to do or the app was asking me to do, even though it was kind of overwhelming. And I think part of it is that app was based, I'm assuming, on a lot of expertise, a lot of information, a lot of trial and error. And that's part of recovery, too.

Greg Miller

You know, we need some wise voices in our life that are encouraging us, challenging us. I'm helping us to set a pace that is realistic. And so that's where the community can be a significant part of what we're doing. And we do listen to others as we're trying to figure this out and begin. Yeah.

Jim Farm

I'm assuming a part of your journey, Greg, in terms of the running, was during those these last two years, I'm assuming it wasn't smooth. I bet you had some injuries or some soreness or some illness that got in the way of the running. And.

Greg Miller

Absolutely. And what's true is there's always challenges. And the challenge could be something going on with me physically. The challenge itself could be the weather. You know, I live in Chicago. We're in the middle of winter. And so you have to be willing to challenge yourself beyond some of those things and also name your limits. You know, if you are struggling with an injury, there are some other things that you can do beyond running that still are supporting the running journey.

Greg Miller

Another piece of this, and I mentioned it the last time I talked about it was so my doctor said that I needed to get more aerobic exercise, but I also needed to do some strength training. And so I started going to this gym. I have my physical or my personal trainer. I've been doing that for almost two years.

Greg Miller

Two. And one of the things that I was told that I had not thought of on my own was this idea that in order to be an effective runner, you have to have a solid core, and someone who's familiar with running said one of the ways you can know that someone needs more core strength is what is their posture while they're running.

Greg Miller

And you know, if there have been over if you know they're struggling to keep a straight posture, that's probably a good indication that they could do some work around their core. Well, when I started that, I had not made the connection between running and the strength training I was doing. But the more that I've done it, the more that I realized those two things worked together.

Greg Miller

And that's true for a lot of people in recovery. Yes, we are focusing on the recovery, but there are some additional things that we can do to support that. You know, we often talk about brain health and the fact that if we, you know, we say you got to get your brain to cooperate. And so that may be something that someone needs to address that's going to directly support their recovery.

Greg Miller

Maybe there's been some trauma and they need to do some very specific work around trauma. Or maybe they've had some very specific things around their body and they would benefit from some somatic care. But there are these additional peripheral things that we do that directly support our recovery. In the same way that the strength training I am doing is supporting me in my running.

Jim Farm

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think that's definitely it. Because, you know, recovery isn't always, you know, just I got to stop this behavior and just maybe even not even just one form of counseling. Maybe I need other kinds of resources in terms of counseling for recovery. You know, the other thing in terms of running that's, you know, kind of equivalent with with recoveries, you often think of running as like just an individual sport, which a lot of it is you do have to do a lot of the lifting yourself, right?

Jim Farm

But what I recognize, it's a lot easier if someone's running with you, right? You know, when you hit that kind of what they kind of call that, what is that wall when you're running? Like, I've hit that wall, it's nice to have someone that says, all right, let's let's keep camaraderie.

Randy Evert

Yeah. Really?

Greg Miller

Well, and, you know, one of the things I see that I benefit from is occasionally I do sign up for an official race. So at this point I've done A5K, some ten KS, 15 K, and also two half marathons. And what I benefit from is the energy that the group of people who are running bring. And in each race, when I'm going to further distance, literally, I have never run that far before.

Greg Miller

So when I did the AK, the furthest I had ever run was A5K because my app was couch to five K, and so I'd never done those last three KS. And I think that really what helped me was the energy from not just the crowd's cheering, but also the people I was running with. And when I did my first half marathon, I had never run that far before.

Greg Miller

I had done ten miles, but I've not done 13.1. And so I do think being in a group that is focused on the same thing helps us kind of push ourselves. And then the other piece is in running, my experience has been you always challenge yourself beyond what you think you can do. And that is so true in recovery.

Greg Miller

You know, recovery is about becoming this person that God created you to be. It's living beyond your expectations or even your experience of what you believe is possible. And so we hear that challenge to something that is more and I think that that that's an important part of recovery. I'm constantly looking beyond where I am now to see what else might be possible.

Jim Farm

Yeah, yeah. There are things I think about in terms of running is, you know, when I first started running, I didn't like you. I really didn't know much about it because I played more ball sports when I was younger. And so I knew a lot about ball sports. I had no knowledge of running whatsoever, but I learned fairly quickly that the right tools are necessary.

Jim Farm

Like, I didn't know they made specific running shoes for specific kind of feet. In fact, I bought the wrong running shoes when I first started and I ended up having any issues ankle issues because I make running shoes that are for pro or super natives. You probably know this by now.

Greg Miller

Well, actually I am so impressed that you know those terms. I don't, but I know what you're talking about.

Jim Farm

Yeah, it caused me significant knee injuries and I ended up having to get new shoes in because I didn't have the right stuff. Right. You know, and I didn't have that knowledge to, to, to do that. The other thing I recognized after my first race is you can't wear like, certain shirts or shorts. You ever wondered, like people wear short shirts?

Jim Farm

I always thought, like, get some longer shorts and you know what I mean? But I recognized that they wear those short shorts because, you know, if you're running, you're, you know, you're you're shaping. Yeah. And so, you know, there's a reason they're wearing the short shorts.

Greg Miller

Right. Well. And the understanding what the process is helps me to identify again what the various, you know, equipment I need. And what's interesting is I don't have to be an expert in some of these things because there are other people who are out there. And so it really is about creating this team. And we talk about that all the time, kind of this recovery team that helps, you know, what are the resources I'm going to need, what are the various tools that are going to be helpful.

Greg Miller

So I have to lead the team, but I can use other experts to make it more effective.

Jim Farm

Yeah. And oftentimes we're learning from other people's experience of that. Don't you know that didn't work. This does work right. You know, one of the things that Mark talked about and I've heard you talk about that's important in recovery is vision. Like, you know, for recovery, you have to have know where you're going. It's step by step, but you kind of have to know where you're going.

Jim Farm

Right? You know.

Greg Miller

Well and using that image like I do, I always have a little bit of anxiety that I'm going to get lost on the race and especially races where they have like A5K, a ten K and a 15 K, and you have to follow the signs and make sure. But what I've discovered is it's clearly marked once I get there.

Greg Miller

And a lot of times, you know, they'll show you what the path is going to be and you can look at it, see the map of it. But it's so much more helpful to know that when I get to a place, I will know which direction to go, because it will be clearly marked. And I think that that's another piece of recovery.

Greg Miller

If I look too far down the road, or if I feel like I've got to have the whole thing figured out, I'm not going to be successful. But if I can just trust that if I'm faithful to what I know, that next right step will be evident when I get there. And if I get to the place where I do need to make some decisions and decide which path I'm going to take, if I can just trust, I'm going to have the information I need at that point to make that decision.

Greg Miller

And so it is always looking down the road at the next right step.

Jim Farm

Yeah, yeah. I think that's so important because without having the other thing is, you know, why are we doing this. Why are we on this recovery journey without a vision? It's kind of like a lot of work for with a lot of pain and not much to kind of look forward to. But like you said, I think that vision is, you know, becoming who God's called us, right?

Greg Miller

When one other thing I want to say about community is. So for the most part, my running has been basically by myself unless I'm doing these races. But back in the summer, I joined a running club and to be honest, I would have never thought that I would run in a running club. And the reason I do is Chicago has this running organization.

Greg Miller

They have neighborhood clubs that you can be a part of, and literally the one in my neighborhood just runs by my street. I'm able to walk a little bit and meet them, and I have found that incredibly helpful. And what's what's true is they are much better runners and faster runners than I am. And in fact, when they posted, you know, we can run at this pace or we can run at this space, my pace wasn't even listed as an option.

Greg Miller

And so, you know, the image is me behind and the running club in front. But even with that, it's not like I'm running with them. And what's true is I don't have enough lung capacity to have a conversation with anybody while I'm running, although some people do, and.

Randy Evert

Very impressive.

Greg Miller

It's helpful for me to know that they're going to be there. And, you know, the club runs Thursday mornings at 6 a.m., and I would never define myself as a morning person. And so on those cold winter mornings, the only thing that gets me out of bed is that kind of loyalty and commitment that I've made to the club.

Greg Miller

And just the other day, at 6 a.m. on Thursday morning, I think the temperature was five degrees and the wind chill was like negative two. And the rule is or the guideline is as long as the temperature is above zero, the running club runs. And so they have a text stream. And the leader sent out a text who's excited about running tomorrow morning.

Greg Miller

And I responded, I would not use the word excited and I'm planning to be there. But that text, the fact that I said I will be there, that's what got me out of bed. Not not the desire to run, not the desire to be in, you know, a five degree run. But just because I committed to that and I, I really encourage men to use the community to support them in moving forward, especially where there's resistance.

Greg Miller

You know, there is a part of us that doesn't want to choose recovery. There is a part of us that recognize it's difficult. And, you know, the reality of recovery is it's moving towards those parts of our lives that we want to medicate and avoid with the addiction. And so I often, you know, when men say, what do you think my next step is in recovery?

Greg Miller

The answer typically is what is the pain that you're wanting to avoid, that you're being invited to move towards. And the community can be a great place of that where we we show up because we made a commitment, we stay engaged because of the community. And so for those men that are trying to do this on their own or aren't really leveraging their community, they are going to struggle.

Greg Miller

In fact, if you're trying to do it on your own, you're not going to be able to recover. And if you're not really leveraging your recovery or leveraging your community, you're not going to be as successful because we need other people waiting for us on that corner at 6 a.m. and five degree temperatures that get us out the door to join them.

Greg Miller

And so, you know, again, I find that it's not like I run with them. They run ahead of me. It's not like I have conversations with them, but it's knowing that they expect me to be there. And that expectation is an invitation. And I want to be committed to the community that makes it possible. The other thing is this I don't have to run at 6 a.m. on a Thursday morning.

Greg Miller

My schedule is such that I could run at a different time typically when it's warmer, but I also know I need to challenge myself. I need to strengthen my discipline because my my desire is to run the Chicago Marathon. That's what I'm working for this year. I turned 65, and so the vision is that I'll run a marathon when I'm 65 years old.

Greg Miller

And and part of that is knowing it's going to take commitment, it's going to take discipline. So I have the vision. I've signed up for the training that the running club does. I've signed up for races that extend how far I've run, you know, getting ready. And one other correlation is this, you know, early in recovery, one of the things that our partners want to know is are you going to be sober?

Greg Miller

Can you commit to me that you're going to be sober? And what we all know is if the man says yes, the reality is that doesn't feel very trustworthy and the wife doesn't necessarily trust that, but we feel compelled to say, yes. What I've discovered is if somebody says, are you going to run the marathon? I can't say, yes, I'm going to run the marathon.

Greg Miller

I may get injured or something else, but what I can say is I'm committed to train for the marathon. I'm committed to do what I believe in. What others, the experts say is necessary to do the marathon. So I'm committed to get up at 6 a.m. to run. I'm committed to run the distances that I'm encouraged to run.

Greg Miller

I've signed up for races, I've signed up for the training, and what I know is if I'm committed to do the training, then I can say one day I am able to run the marathon. So for those of you especially early in recovery, that you're desperately wanting other people to believe that you can be sober the rest of your life, probably the best way to communicate that is I am committed today to do what is necessary so that I can be sober, and I'm committed to do tomorrow what I need to do tomorrow so that I can be sober.

Greg Miller

Yeah.

Jim Farm

That's a great point, because a lot of guys that come to us, sometimes they they believe, I can't ever imagine actually being sober for even six months, let alone for a year or years. And I'm assuming with running like yourself, you probably, when you first started, would have never imagined I could possibly run a marathon.

Greg Miller

Absolutely, absolutely. The other day I went, well, it was five, five degrees and we were running along Lake Michigan. And I had this thought. In fact, at this point, I was I was talking to somebody and I said, I remember being the person in the car looking at people running when it's five degrees and basically making some judgments about their, their mental health.

Greg Miller

At that.

Randy Evert

Point, you got to be nuts.

Greg Miller

Yes, exactly. And here I am doing it. And so absolutely, you know, and I think that is part of recovery. I love it when a man says, there was a time when I couldn't imagine 30 days of sobriety, and I've been sober for 30 days or six months or one year or five years, whatever it is. And I do think it is that commitment to the journey.

Greg Miller

It's the commitment to the vision. It's the commitment to the community that make all of that possible. And in those moments where we're resistant, we do whatever we need to push through that resistance. That's how we build the sobriety that we desire. That's how we run the distances that we want. And, you know, I still do not consider myself a runner.

Greg Miller

I think runners like it and runners look forward to it. But what I can say is I'm excited about challenging myself in a way that I never imagined I could challenge myself, and having something that I'm I'm working towards that is beyond me. And I think that's so much of recovery. It's about challenging ourselves to do the things that we maybe at one point never imagined that we were going to be able to do.

Greg Miller

And it's important that we see the possibilities that are out there.

Jim Farm

Yeah, yeah, I love that. One of the things you did say earlier was kind of like when you're out there running and you're looking at the times, well, I don't compare to those times. I don't even get on the sheet. But I've heard you say many times in the workshop, identify, but don't compare.

Greg Miller

Oh, excellent. Yes.

Jim Farm

You know.

Greg Miller

If I am tempted, you know, to to compare. Okay. But you're right. It's my race. It's my pace. It's, you know, whatever I need to do to get across the finish line. And part of it is also having grace with yourself. You know, one of the best things that a runner said to me one time was, some days your run is just going to be ugly.

Greg Miller

And I didn't even know what that meant. Well, now I know there are those days where it's stumbling and it is awkward and you're you're walking some and you're not breathing well, you know, it's just not that graceful, beautiful run that you're hoping for. It's more awkward and stumbling.

Randy Evert

Let's leave my running out of it.

Greg Miller

Well. Another another reason I don't consider myself a runner is my assumption is if you're a runner, your run is graceful. You know, when I run, I look like those zombies that are just kind of stumbling awkwardly down the road and not the fast zombies, the slow one. But, there's sometimes that recovery is kind of stumbling and awkward.

Greg Miller

It doesn't feel graceful. And yet you're still on the journey, you're still moving forward. And it is that commitment that no matter what you know, no matter how I finish, I'm determined to finish. It may be an ugly race, but I want to cross that finish line in any form that I can. Yeah. And so I think that's another thing to recognize, is don't compare your race to anybody else's.

Greg Miller

Don't don't compare your pace to anybody else's. But be committed to yourself and don't compare identify. And that has been something that's really been helpful for me as I try to find my way forward.

Jim Farm

Yeah, I remember my sons when they're in track. Their coach used to say, you know, because you're kind of out there running, you're on a team, but you're running the race by yourself and you just said, you just you need to have this focus where you're just telling yourself that today is going to be better than yesterday. I'm working towards progress.

Jim Farm

It's not going to be perfection. Because like you said, some days my time is a little bit faster than other days. But am I making progress? I'm making movement, you know.

Greg Miller

Yeah. And, you know, one of the things that I'm aware of is technology is helpful for me and running. You know, I am not a very technologically oriented kind of person. I just kind of I never have been, but I have found that there are certain things in technology that have been helpful. My my kids one year got me this watch, and it helps me identify my pace and the distance that I've gone.

Greg Miller

It helps to record that. And so one of the things I encourage men to do is, especially for those of you, that technology has been a destructive part and a part of your addiction. Find healthy, safe ways so that the technology that was once destructive can be productive and support you in your recovery. And the watch thy where the way that it links to my phone.

Greg Miller

Those are all things that help me be more effective in my running. And so I do think there are ways that we can use the technology and the resources around us to improve our recovery, and obviously we do that in safe ways. But I do think that that can be a correlation that we can understand.

Jim Farm

Yeah. Well, we're going to follow you, Greg. And, you know, we like to celebrate when people hit, you know, you know, mile markers and their recovery.

Randy Evert

And we'll be cheering for you.

Jim Farm

We'll be cheering for you on that that way.

Greg Miller

And here's one other thing. This is a part of my recovery. Yeah. You know, this is part of the stuff we talk about the green circle things. And what's true is my survivor man can get out there and run. And yet when my wise man is a part of this, it's it. It is helping me to move forward and to become the man that God created me to be.

Greg Miller

And I've got the things I'm looking forward to. There's a ten mile race in April. There's a 13.1 mile in June. There's a 20 mile race that'll come up in the fall sometime, and then the marathon itself. And once again, you know, when I run the marathon, I will have never run those last miles. And I'm going to have to find that.

Greg Miller

And that is part of recovery, finding that part of us finding that resource. We didn't even know we had to continue the journey when we want to give up.

Jim Farm

One of my favorite things to Greg about your story is, you know, oftentimes I'll hear at the workshop, like, man, I wish I'd had gotten recovery when I was 18. I'm an old guy now, right? And you're like, you said, I'm 65 and run my first marathon. I'm like, never too late.

Greg Miller

It's never too late. That is absolutely true.

Jim Farm

Yeah.

Randy Evert

Well, Greg and Jim, thank you so much. This has been the show I was hoping it was going to be because our running is a is a great metaphor for recovery. And we hope that you've enjoyed today's podcast on this subject. We hope that you will also visit our website, Faithful and True, where you'll find many resources available, available to you, as well as all of the information and online registration for our three day Intensive Men's Journey workshops that we do every month.

Randy Evert

Here at Faithful and True. We also offer the Women's Journey workshops. We do that on about a quarterly basis for the women, and we also have two different versions of the couple's journey workshops. So things are expanding and changing all the time here, and we're excited to see the ways that we continue to spread our wings and the people that we're able to help through the talented staff that we have here at Faithful and True.

Randy Evert

People like you and Jim are gifted. So to see these people coming in like we've got the full workshop of men coming in tomorrow for this weekend's Men's Journey workshop. You see them come in in great need of direction, and you see them leave three days later that much closer to their personal finish line. So we thank you so much for joining us, Jim.

Randy Evert

Thanks for being on the podcast. We always enjoy having the clinical Director of Faithful Church prestigious position.

Jim Farm

Daniel is going to bring me down to earth here for now.

Randy Evert

Daniel is good at that. So anyway, we we thank you for joining us today. We hope that this coming week for you, it's going to be a week that's filled with many blessings and with great vision.