Connections

reg Miller

I think that that's a great way to describe it is sometimes we are so familiar with the chaos and there's a normalcy to it that it's comfortable. You know, I often say anything that is familiar becomes comfortable. And so even though it was chaotic, even though there were these string of relationships or connections sexually, there was something typical and normal about it.

Greg Miller

And so it felt familiar. But I also like what you said. There was still a part of you intuitively that knew that something was off.

Randy Evert

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.

Greg Miller

That there was some part of this that, wasn't who you wanted to be or how you wanted to live, and even an awareness that this wasn't sustainable, that this wasn't the kind of life that you wanted.

Daniel Martinez

Welcome to the Faithful and True podcast. I'm Randy Everett, your co-host, and here today with our regular host, doctor Greg Miller. Greg, how are you?

Greg Miller

I'm doing well.

Daniel Martinez

It's good to see you. We have a very special guest with us today. It's the newest, staff member here at Faithful and True. His name is Daniel Martinez. And Daniel comes to us from Texas, and he is our new director of connections. And on today's podcast, we're going to talk about just. What is that?

Greg Miller

Yeah, exactly. And one of the things for those who you who have been watching our podcast, we have been introducing different team members as our staff has grown. And Daniel is brand new and plays an important role. And the title really says it all. That part of your responsibility is to help to create connections between faithful and true.

Greg Miller

And to whom? Who, who are we trying to connect to?

Randy Evert

Yeah. You know, when when I took this position and we kind of. Well, Debbie created the position. You know, and when we took it, we were. That was one of the big questions. Okay. Of the connections, who were we wanting to connect with? And a big thing of it is a big part of it is the therapist. Other therapists work with them.

Randy Evert

How do we connect with them? I think a big challenge for me is churches. How can we connect with churches? How can we create that safe space for churches? And so that's really been kind of something that I'm really trying to work towards. Yeah.

Greg Miller

Yeah. Well, one of the things when, you know, the men come to our workshop and also the women, we ask, how did you find out about it? And a significant percentage of people identified that it was through another person. So it might have been a therapist. That's one of our big referral sources. But we also know that family members, pastors, small group leaders, other church staff members, all of those help to contribute to the people who come to faithful and true and really kind of the vision is anyone that is connecting to us.

Greg Miller

We want to connect to them. And that kind of sets you up to be able to do that.

Randy Evert

Yeah, absolutely. So I did the data, I ran the statistics on it and kind of dug through some data there. And for the statistics for how do they hear about us? The church is like you said was or the therapists, like you said was the highest was around 40%. Then we had the pastors, that was around 10%.

Randy Evert

Friends and family were around 30%. And this is for men and women, and it's usually somebody like their husband has been through the workshop before, somebody like that. The books, about 3%. Podcasts did great. It was 10% as well. So yeah. So it's definitely some interesting findings in that study.

Greg Miller

Now, how did you find your way to Faithful and True? How did you hear about it?

Randy Evert

Yeah. So. Yeah. No. Yeah. Drumroll. Yeah. No. Well, it's a very long story. How long do we have here? No. So. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I have to tell a little bit about myself, I think for for it to kind of, you know, go. So I was born in Illinois, raised in Texas, lived there my whole life.

Randy Evert

I was actually a firefighter in Texas. But, you know, growing up and and raised, I was raised in a very dysfunctional home. I had a my mother and father did divorce when I was two years old. My my dad, he was a womanizer. I mean, this is just what he was. You know, there's there's a and, you know, talk about generational sin.

Randy Evert

There's this joke in my family that my grandfather, he had a whole separate family down in Mexico. And the only way we found out about it was he was having chest pains. He goes to the hospital, thinks he's going to die, and he tells my grandmother, you know why he's there? He. Hey, I got this. Other family will turn out to be indigestion.

Randy Evert

And so, so so, you know, so that all kind of came out right. So I grew up in this very dysfunctional home. No. Nothing with church at all. Church was not, you know, my the only thing I remember seeing was a a crucifix that my dad were, you know, but, I bounced back and forth between my mother and father whenever money got really tight.

Randy Evert

And, you know, there's a lot of mouse to feed. And so my mom ended up remarrying and having a different family. And, you know, I was kind of my dad for the for the rest of them growing up. And, and so I grow up around this environment, you know, and not knowing healthy. I grew up around chaos. And that's all it was.

Randy Evert

I mean, my family was just chaos and I was chaos internally. And so I grew up I grew up go to the get, get on to the fire department. I'm working and I cheating on my on my ex. For, for years, we ended up getting a divorce. But because then I didn't have the resources I didn't know about faithful and true.

Randy Evert

I didn't know about sexual addiction. That wasn't anything in my my vocabulary because it was such a common thing around, you know, me growing up. Seeing different women and, you know, and all of that. So, internally, I knew it was wrong, but it's it's a normal wrong, you know, so.

Greg Miller

I, I think that that's a great way to describe it is sometimes we are so familiar with the chaos and there's a normalcy to it that it's comfortable. You know, I often say anything that is familiar becomes comfortable. And so even though it was chaotic, even though there were these string of relationships or connections sexually, there was something typical and normal about it.

Greg Miller

And so it felt familiar. But I also like what you said there was still a part of you intuitively that knew that something was off.

Randy Evert

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.

Greg Miller

The there was some part of this that, wasn't who you wanted to be or how you wanted to live, and even an awareness that this wasn't sustainable, that this wasn't the kind of life that you wanted.

Randy Evert

Yeah, absolutely. And so I'm living this double life at that time, and, and it all comes out and me and my ex, we divorce and and then it just gives me free rein to do whatever I want. You know, I had no accountability. I was not in church. I wasn't even a believer at that time. And then, you know, thankfully, I had people praying for me that I didn't know about.

Randy Evert

And so I finally come to faith. I finally, you know, something's pull, like there's something more. You start getting those deep down dark, you know, those deep down questions of, you know, there has to be something more in life. And I'm not happy with what I'm doing. This ain't working. And so I finally come to faith and and that's when the real kind of battle began.

Randy Evert

Being a single man who's known nothing but chaos his whole life. And so I, I, I, I remember one, one time that after acting out that, I remember having this thought of I can't stop like, this is this is this is not stopping at all. I cannot stop myself. Something's wrong. I need help. And so I,

Randy Evert

What happened? I happen to read Patrick Carnes book out of the shadows and Don't call it love. And then I read Marc lasers book Healing the Wounds of Sexual Addiction. And I said, okay, and then I.

Greg Miller

How how did you even find those books? Did someone offer them to you or did you do a Google search?

Randy Evert

It was all Google at that time. You know.

Daniel Martinez

He's a great research.

Randy Evert

Yeah. So I was you know, I was so hungry when I came to Faith, all I wanted to do was read and, and so I, I just would search up anything and just read all of these books. And. Yeah, it was just by, by chance, I just found Patrick Carnes. And then I don't remember how I, I, I don't know if he mentions Mark in his book, but I came to Mark and then I just saw how how Doctor Laser incorporated the Christian faith, you know, into those principles and, you know, values and and that's what I really wanted.

Randy Evert

But, you know, I didn't go I didn't go right away. I kind of it was expensive, you know, and I was broke. I was in debt, I was addicted. You know, addiction drives up debt, you know.

Greg Miller

So addiction is expensive of different ways.

Randy Evert

It costs you, it costs you. It costs a lot of ways. And so I, I finally have another moment where I'm just like, yeah, this I, I'm either this is going to go really bad, I, I, I have to do whatever I can to stop. And so you know what I was like, you know what? I'm going to, I'm going to call faithful and true.

Randy Evert

And I called Faithful and True. And I called in July of 2022. And I came up here in August of 2022. And, I was so grateful to be a part of Doctor Greg Miller's and I. And I was up here in the you know, how you talk about in the, in the workshop is, you know, being fully known.

Randy Evert

And I remember I was holding on to these, these dark secrets and just things that I just never wanted. Anybody know, things that I was going to take to the grave. Right. And, and I remember you saying, you know, hey, you know, share, share that last ten, 20%. And I remember sitting in that group in, in, in sharing for the and I did not want to I mean, I the Holy Spirit was like, you're going to share this.

Randy Evert

And I was like, I don't want to share it. And so, I ended up sharing it, of course. And when I shared it, it was like a weight just dropped from me. I mean, I mean, literally 100 pound weighted vest just dropped from me, and I felt known. But not only that, I, I, I felt known and accepted right by the other guys there.

Greg Miller

Well, and what's also true, what we talk about is that idea when we have the courage to speak that last ten, 20%, whatever it is, we get free from the shame. And we often talk about how shame is based upon lies. And those lies hold us hostage. And there is something profound about sharing and shedding that shame in a safe community.

Greg Miller

And part of what you experienced was the freedom that comes from the bondage, the the fact that truth sets us free. And you were in a safe environment where it wasn't overwhelming, it wasn't too much. We weren't shocked. We didn't have a big reaction. I mean, so we could be with you in that. And I do think for a lot of men that come to our workshop, for those who do have the courage to speak that thing, that is too much, and they do have the very similar experience.

Greg Miller

You know, I often say one of my favorite things is when a man says, I have never told anybody this before, and then he's able to speak it out loud.

Randy Evert

Oh yeah, and that's exactly what I said. I've never I have never shared this before. And this is and I remember you were like, okay. And I was like, okay, you know, and it kind of, we know kind of went on from there. And, and so, I'm that that was such an amazing, experience for me. I had such a profound experience here at Faithful and True.

Randy Evert

I remember going back home. And and even the guys I was friends with, I built accountability around that time and, you know, getting in the church and plugged in. And I remember the guys were like, yeah, something something happened up there. And I'm like, it just it just you're lighter, you know, and coming back home. And so I came back home and I, I, I, I started I didn't really do, I didn't do the next steps right away.

Randy Evert

I stopped the behavior and, and I thought that was healing, you know, of course, you know, we stopped the behavior. We're not we just stopped the bleeding really, you know, and so, time goes on in. I get into this relationship that I should have never got into, and that blows up in my face. And it was out of that relationship that I really understood.

Randy Evert

And it really showed me all those deep abandonment wounds, the core beliefs. Just all of that, childhood, inner childhood that just it was there. I just didn't know. I didn't know what to do. I didn't know how to do it. And so, I, I started going to this amazing therapist, and we started working together. And for a year, you know, a little over a year.

Randy Evert

That's all I did was, do that core belief work, regulate my nervous system. Because I didn't understand why I was attracted to people I wasn't. I shouldn't be attracted to women, I. I shouldn't be attracted. I didn't understand that. Didn't understand why I was attracted to chaos.

Greg Miller

What if we rephrase that? Yeah, that.

Randy Evert

That shouldn't.

Greg Miller

Stuff can be shaming. What if we just say I was attracted to people, that it wasn't helpful for me to be attracted to, that? These are good people. They are the beloved daughters of God. Yes, they have their own chaos. And so it really is about understanding what was going on with me that was wounded, that I kept gravitating towards that.

Greg Miller

Realizing this is not helpful for me. It's not helpful for me relationally. It's not helpful for me to be sober. It's not helpful for me to kind of live the life that I think that God has called me to live.

Randy Evert

Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, the attachment wounds and all of that, that's. Absolutely. And and so I, I just stopped and I just did the work and I, and I, and God had me in such a place and it was so hard. You know, I always said stopping the behavior is the hardest, I think. And it takes the longest, in my opinion.

Randy Evert

Healing the core beliefs is the most painful. For me it was I know, I know that it was and but I just, I, you know, I went through all the, you know, the, the past childhood sexual abuse and physical abuse that I endured and, and I worked and I repented. You know, a lot of, you know, a lot of that, a lot of that inner child.

Randy Evert

And so from there, you know, so after I'm working on myself and I still work on myself. Don't get me wrong, I think it's an always in, all in going, you know, thing. And then, I'm working for the fire department, and, I sense God is like, telling me that it's going to be my last year in the fire department, and this was this past April, and, and I just I kind of wrestled with that for a little bit.

Randy Evert

And, I was like, you know, nobody I'm 44 and I've been in the fire department for 21 years. Nobody just UPS and, you know, retires like that. So it kind of took me a little bit. So but I finally went up to my, my fire chief and said, hey, I think this is my last year in the fire department.

Randy Evert

And then a week later, Faithful and True sends out a email saying they're hiring for an administrative assistant and.

Daniel Martinez

Looking for a fireman.

Randy Evert

Yeah. You know, so, you know, it's funny, as I was applying for an administrative assistant position and I emailed Debbie, the day comes out, I email her and I and this is my, like, exact words. It's like, this may sound crazy, but I'm a firefighter from Texas, you know, and I want to apply for this position and I'm willing to relocate because I just knew, I, I knew that this is where I wanted to be.

Randy Evert

I knew that this is where God was showing me where to go. And and so and she was like, yeah, let's let's do a little meet on zoom. And we did and did a little interview after that. And she was like, you know, we're gonna we're gonna create a position for you, Daniel. And I was like, you know what?

Randy Evert

Oh, yeah, that sounds great, Debbie.

Greg Miller

Well, and what what is true is for the the people who have gone through the program, for the people who come to the workshop and are in their own recovery journey, whether they do it here or somebody else, there is a different energy. There is this understanding. And so to be the director of the connections is so important, because you understand what it's like to be that person who is in chaos and lost, and you also know what it is to find the resources and the importance of that.

Greg Miller

And so to be partnering with those people on this side, inviting them to to come, I think is such a huge gift that you're able to give. And one of the things that we want people to know is that this connection piece is foundational to who we are. That it was, you know, Mark, lasers vision was always to create relationships and connections with therapists around the country.

Greg Miller

So that they did have a place, you know, where they could send someone for three days. And one of our things that we love to do is to have those people come here for three days and send them back to train therapists and counselors who can continue the journey with them. And I'm in no way do we replace what others are doing.

Greg Miller

We just want to be supportive of what it is that they're doing, whether it's the church or a small group or a counselor or a therapist.

Randy Evert

Yeah, absolutely. You know, I think the connections are so important to you because I remember, you know, when I was in a the small group at church, at my church back in, in Texas and Houston, we didn't know, you know, we we had these other studies and these studies are so they're not they're not the deep you know, they're kind of but we don't we didn't have a lot of the resources.

Randy Evert

And I think it's so important to, you know, try to connect with those churches and saying, hey, this is what we have, you know, this is the resources that we have. Because I just I just don't think that the info is out there, you know, so well.

Greg Miller

And part of it also is, if I don't have an understanding of addiction, if I don't have the understanding of compulsive behavior, then I can easily judge someone who is struggling is just being not committed or lacking willpower, or kind of not wanting to really do the work. But if I understand. Okay, there's a complexity to this, and that's part of the word that I use, is if we're going to get free, we have to understand that this is complex.

Greg Miller

It is about stopping a behavior, but it is also understanding what's driving the behavior and using a fire image. You can work on the flames and put the flames out, but if it's a gas fire until you get the gas turned off, the fire is going to continue. And so we want to partner with churches and educate them and help them to understand there are some ways that you can turn off the gas of the fire.

Greg Miller

You can turn off the fuel so that people can be successful in their recovery.

Randy Evert

That was really good. Were you a firefighter?

Daniel Martinez

He's he's he's our analogy machine. Just give him two minutes and he'll come up with that. Very relevant you know.

Randy Evert

You know you said something in there and I think this was a kind of, something that I remember hearing. I, you know, I still kind of hear from somebody from back home is, you know, they're they're trying to be an accountability partner for, for somebody back at home. And they're just like, he won't stop. He won't stop doing it.

Randy Evert

You know, he won't stop doing. You know, it's a it's a mental issue now. And I'm just like you. There's more right there. There's there's more to it.

Greg Miller

Yeah, well, I'm part of it too, is, recognizing another analogy is a car engine can be a great car engine. And yet if there's something that is not working, it's not going to run. And so we often say the question is never what's wrong with him? You know, if someone is struggling, it's not what's wrong with you.

Greg Miller

It really is what is missing. It is part of what's missing is you don't understand the complexity of this issue or is part of what's missing is you don't have the resources to support you and your recovery, is part of what missing is you don't have, an understanding of what is needed and how to use those resources.

Greg Miller

You know, a lot of times there will be guys, they are involved in groups. They have been to the workshop. Deb and I just did a podcast not that long ago on relapse and slips. And part of the reality is there are a lot of people out there that have these resources, but they're not maximizing them. And so again, we don't ever want to shame somebody with the question of what's wrong with you?

Greg Miller

You can't stop. It really is okay. What's missing from your program or what are you not maximizing or stewarding in your program to keep you stuck in the chaos?

Randy Evert

Absolutely. You know, you know, kind of going on the other side is, you know, now that I'm up here and I moved up here, you know, and I'm living in Minnesota, I've been here since August 16th. You know, when I moved up here and now being at a place where I really don't well, I don't have a lot of connection up here.

Randy Evert

Right. You know, and it's that season of, you know, thank goodness I went through the season. I just went through where, you know, I can connect with myself. You know, I can I can I can feel and heal that part of me. But what's tough right now is having really not a lot of connections up here. And then it's like, okay, what what am I doing up here?

Randy Evert

You know? So yeah, that's been that's a tough it's kind of a tough, you know.

Greg Miller

But there's a it's kind of the awakening to the reality of what have I done. You know everything I know it's it's not that, you know, Houston is Egypt, but is that, you know, that when the children were wandering.

Daniel Martinez

Outside of.

Greg Miller

Egypt, when the children were wandering in the wilderness, it did get to a place where they were questioning, why did we leave this? It was easier where we were. It wasn't great, but it's better than wandering in the desert. And so it makes sense. In a significant transition like this, there's always that piece of the in between. You know, you're not fully out of Houston, but you're not fully here yet.

Greg Miller

I always use the image for you old people. The old Star Trek's where they would beam somebody up and down. And there was that point where they were fuzzy and they weren't fully on the new space, but they weren't fully on the ship anymore. And that's a very vulnerable place to be. And so it is about reminding ourselves of the truth.

Greg Miller

It is about staying grounded in what brought us here. That commitment of I think this is for me. And sometimes we just need to be reminded of that. And I do have a question. So in all of the chaos. Do you remember people who came into your life that in some way represented that life could be different? That, maybe it was a coworker, maybe it was somebody that you went to school with.

Greg Miller

But one of the stories that I hear often is that everything around me was chaotic. But this person came into my life and in some way represented that there doesn't have to be chaos or there doesn't have to be as much chaos.

Randy Evert

Yeah. No, absolutely. I have a buddy down in Houston and I, I remember. And I met him early on. I remember praying there was a season I didn't really have anybody yet. And I was just, you know, I converted, I became a believer. And then there was that kind of like that just that season before you really kind of get plugged into a church.

Randy Evert

And so, but eventually I did and I met this guy and we just became really close friends, and we were so close friends. Today. And I remember, you know, just kind of looking at his life and he, I remember thinking and it was just kind of that. Just that. Yeah. Life doesn't have to be chaotic. You can have a stable life.

Randy Evert

I mean, he's not perfect by any means, but he's a lot, a lot more stable than I was at that time. But. Yeah, absolutely. And I had a couple of friends, but one really close friend that I can think of, I remember just just looking and be like, yeah, that's that's what I want, and I want this, that stable the peace.

Randy Evert

Right? I don't want the chaos. I want that peace.

Greg Miller

Yeah. You know, when I'm working with someone, there are typically two questions that I'll ask. And the first one is, do you want things to be better? And that is that question of desire. The other question is, do you believe that things can be better? And that's the question of possibility. And what's true is if they answer no to either one of those, it won't get better.

Greg Miller

Because if I don't want it to get better, it's not going to get better. And if I don't believe it can get better, it's not going to get better. And one of the the gifts talking about connections is, for our listeners and for people who have been through our program, one of the best gifts that you give to someone is modeling that it can be better.

Greg Miller

You know, that whatever chaos you're coming out of, that you know, there is this opportunity to live freely and that doesn't, like you said, it doesn't mean our life is perfect. It doesn't mean that we've figured everything out. It doesn't mean that it's not difficult at times. It's just that we're not consumed in the chaos, and it gives us an opportunity to move beyond that.

Greg Miller

And so, you know, part of what we're hoping with the connections is that here at Faithful and True, we can be a safe place that people can come to, that you can send people to, whether you're a professional, whether you're a counselor or a therapist, whether you're a member of a staff or a part of a small group that you can say, there's this place, you can go there for three days.

Greg Miller

And one of the things I want people to understand is in three days, your life is not going to be significantly transformed. You're still going to go back to whatever you left. Yeah. But what we do know is those three days allow people to experience hope. Maybe in a way they haven't, to also be more open to change and to leave with less shame.

Greg Miller

And we do believe that those three things together can really set someone, and set them up well and create a trajectory for their recovery.

Randy Evert

Absolutely. You know, I, I love one thing that you said is, you know, you have to have the desire. Do you, you know, do you want to be. Well, And do you believe? And the belief part I struggled with for so long. And I think a lot of it would probably was because of core beliefs. You know, faulty core beliefs.

Randy Evert

I'm not lovable. I'm not good enough. I'm unworthy. Therefore I don't think it can get better. And it wasn't really you know, it was honestly really kind of lately that, that believe part really kind of settled in. I mean I was just reading, the Bible this morning, Mark nine, something that we're up Jesus says, you know, don't be afraid.

Randy Evert

Just believe. You know, just believe. And I, I didn't really understand or really didn't hit me on how important that true. And not just I believe I truly believe I'm going to get better. I'm true. I truly believe I will heal from this.

Greg Miller

And one one thing that we often say around here is sometimes someone doesn't have that belief, and yet we can have that belief for them. You know, when I was in seminary, I was in a class, and my life at that point was really very challenging. And so in kind of a belligerent way, I raised my hand and asked the professor, you know, is God's grace always sufficient?

Greg Miller

And he took a moment. He paused, and he said, well, for me it has been. And I didn't know the professor well, but I knew some of the things that he had gone through, and he had experienced some tragedy. And it's not like I suddenly believed that God's grace was sufficient, but I believe that he believed it, and he had credibility because of what he had gone through.

Greg Miller

And so what happened was his belief was enough belief for me. And that's one of the gifts that we want to give. That's one of the connections that we want to make, is for people who are really struggling, believing that there's wellness, that there's healing, that there's transformation, that there's something for them. And we believe it, and we can believe it for you until you're able to believe it for yourself.

Greg Miller

Yeah. So, Daniel, thanks for being with us. Have great that you're on the team.

Daniel Martinez

Yeah. We are. We are blessed by Daniel being added to our team. And, it was funny because Debbie didn't tell me about Daniel coming. I came in on a Monday morning and said, This is Daniel. He's your new roommate. And. And suddenly I was sharing my office, and it's just it's worked out. Come on. It's it it's worked out beautifully.

Daniel Martinez

I'm so thrilled to. You're part of the team. So we want to thank everybody for listening and watching today. Getting to know Daniel just a little bit. If you're a church out there that is looking to connect with faithful and true, we invite you to reach out and call our main number and ask for Daniel.

Daniel Martinez

You'll have a very engaged conversation, and he will help you get connected to Faithful and True. In the meantime, we'd like to invite you to visit our website, Faithful and true.com, where you'll find many free resources to you, as well as all the information and online registration abilities for our three day intensive workshops. We offer the Men's Journey workshop every month.

Daniel Martinez

We do the Women's Journey workshop for the spouse and then, again 3 or 4 times a year. We offer two different couples journey workshops. All of that information is described at Faithful and True, and we invite you to check all of that out in advance. In the meantime, we hope that you've enjoyed today's podcast. We hope that the coming week for you will be a week that's filled with many blessings and with great vision.