Characteristics of a Safe Church
Episode #291
00:00:00:03 - 00:00:26:16
Dr. Mark Laaser
A safe church, I think is one that has active support groups for people struggling with, you know, all addictions. Now it's been very common. Everyone knows that since the early days of Alcoholics Anonymous in 1935, the churches were probably the number one place that hosted 12 step groups. And those groups were usually, as we say, in the basement, you know, downstairs, and you went into them through the back door.
00:00:26:16 - 00:00:46:29
Dr. Mark Laaser
And that has changed a lot. And there are certainly because of the great work that Saddleback Church has done in its Celebrate Recovery program. There are now, you know, dedicated nights in a lot of churches where they come for praise and worship, and then they break off into their individual support groups for a variety of addictions and and co dependencies.
00:00:47:02 - 00:01:18:21
Dr. Mark Laaser
I just think there needs to be more of that, and that a safe church is a place that has resources to send people to. You know, there's a group that meets here for men who are struggling to be accountable about sexual purity.
00:01:18:24 - 00:01:52:00
Randy Evert
To the Faithful and True podcast, I'm Randy Everett, your co-host. And today we have another legacy presentation featuring doctor Mark Lazar. The subject of today's podcast is characteristics of a Safe Church. Mark will give you great information for you to understand about this subject, and always enjoyed being on these podcast with him. It always led us to some great conversations and wonderful times together.
00:01:52:01 - 00:02:00:04
Randy Evert
So here now is doctor Mark Lazar and the Faithful and True podcast, characteristics of a Safe Church.
00:02:00:08 - 00:02:34:14
Dr. Mark Laaser
Randy. Today I thought we'd address a subject that's kind of near and dear to our heart here at Faithful and True. In general, I think I describe it as what are the characteristics of a safe church. Now, why this is important to us here at Faithful and True is that, as many of our listeners know, we've we've entered a season of our vision where we really feel it's important to speak into the local church, to put on our fight of your life events at local churches so that we can open up conversations around healthy sexuality.
00:02:34:20 - 00:02:56:12
Dr. Mark Laaser
To open up conversations at the local church assumes that the local church is safe enough to open up those conversations. So I thought today it might be interesting to think through, to think out loud even, and ask our listeners to even be thinking to themselves about what, in fact, is a safe church.
00:02:56:13 - 00:03:17:21
Randy Evert
Well, it's interesting that you bring that up for today, Mark, because we're very proud of our new Fight of Your Life events that we just launched in the last couple of months. And I was describing the new program to a friend of mine the other day, and the fact that it was your personal desire to, you know, for years you've been helping men struggling with sexual addiction.
00:03:17:21 - 00:03:43:28
Randy Evert
And you said to me, what if we were to reach out through the local churches to men before this has turned into an addiction? What if we reach out to them and make them aware of the world that we're living in, the culture that we're dealing with, you know, the evils that wait around every corner and just educate them about sexual integrity and moral accountability.
00:03:43:28 - 00:03:54:26
Randy Evert
And as I was telling my friend about it, he said, well, I can tell you, the main problem is the fact that when you go to the local churches, don't address that subject.
00:03:54:27 - 00:04:06:08
Dr. Mark Laaser
Yeah. And we hear that feedback all the time. I've heard that feedback, I'm guessing, at least not just feedback, but complaints that come in here. You know, thousands of times.
00:04:06:09 - 00:04:27:23
Randy Evert
If I had heard about this on Sunday when I'm attending church, my eyes would have been opened. You know, I would have been much more sensitive to, you know, being on the lookout for these things. And let's face it, in today's culture, in today's world, you are just a click away or an iPhone swipe away from from pornography.
00:04:27:24 - 00:04:46:26
Dr. Mark Laaser
That is right. So we're living in an incredibly dangerous time. One of our many theme verses here at Faithful and True is this great passage of Paul writes in Romans chapter 12, verse two, don't conform to the ways of the world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. We've addressed that verse from a number of different angles today.
00:04:46:26 - 00:05:11:23
Dr. Mark Laaser
I would like to address it from the fact that our churches safe culture are part of the unsafe culture. You know that we're not to conform or conform to, so we're not going to try to get too controversial. But I would just like to really think today a lot about what is a church that is a healthy church and a church that's promoting healthy sexuality.
00:05:11:24 - 00:05:41:14
Dr. Mark Laaser
We always like to encourage our listeners to think about these topics. If you're listening to our broadcast as a group, I would encourage you right now to pause the recording and just have a short conversation about not so much of the large question, what is a safe church? But maybe this question, when you were growing up in the church, if you did, did you feel it was a safe place or not?
00:05:41:19 - 00:06:01:09
Dr. Mark Laaser
And if it was not a safe place, you know, what are some of the things that you would think made it unsafe? And I'll guarantee you that one of the ones that's going to come up is one I think you alluded to, and that is nobody ever talked to about sexuality in the church. It's been been ignored for centuries.
00:06:01:09 - 00:06:36:01
Randy Evert
And the thing is, there is an audience out there that is eager for eager to be led, eager for information, and both men and women alike. But the men especially, are not here in the message. And this is why the fight of your life events that that we're hosting at local churches is specifically tailored to these, these men sitting in the pews as as our friend Pastor Jay Dennistoun in Florida says it's the pink elephant in the pew that no one is talking about this.
00:06:36:02 - 00:06:49:27
Dr. Mark Laaser
Right? I had a little fun with this earlier today, and I was just trying to come up with what I thought were some characteristics of a safe church, and strangely enough, Randy, I came up with seven. Okay. Does that not sound like a good number?
00:06:50:00 - 00:06:51:12
Randy Evert
Seven is a good number.
00:06:51:15 - 00:06:55:15
Dr. Mark Laaser
The seven I can see a book title, The Seven Characteristics of a Safe Church.
00:06:55:16 - 00:06:57:28
Randy Evert
I mean, write that down. Okay.
00:06:57:29 - 00:07:26:28
Dr. Mark Laaser
No, this is this is really particular also to being a safe church when it comes to the topic of sexuality. Not, you know, Larry Crabb, one of our great friends, wrote a book a number of years ago called The Church The Safest Place to Be. And he talked about safe churches and what that's all about. And I would highly recommend to our listeners that they pick up that book if they wanted to get into this deeper, in a more broad based way.
00:07:26:28 - 00:07:56:24
Dr. Mark Laaser
But for now, let's let's talk about seven characteristics of a church, which means that it would be healthy in terms of the topic of sexuality. Number one is, and we've already really said it, a safe church openly addresses topics of sexuality. And I always like to think about it, that even from the front, even from the front, by the front, I mean the front of the worship center.
00:07:56:25 - 00:07:57:20
Randy Evert
From the pulpit.
00:07:57:20 - 00:08:08:08
Dr. Mark Laaser
From the pulpit. And by the way, our current church culture, we talk about it as the worship center. Do we not? Do we do? What's the old term for this sanctuary?
00:08:08:09 - 00:08:09:00
Randy Evert
Sanctuary?
00:08:09:04 - 00:08:11:29
Dr. Mark Laaser
What does the word sanctuary mean? A place.
00:08:11:29 - 00:08:12:22
Randy Evert
Of safe.
00:08:12:22 - 00:08:46:19
Dr. Mark Laaser
Haven and safety. Safe haven and rest. So maybe that's kind of indicative. We've gotten away from sanctuaries. Now we have worship centers, but I don't want to get off on that subject. I would challenge any of our listeners to think about how often, if ever, they have heard the topic of sexuality addressed at church. In other words, at worship, the worship service, the the main deal, whatever it is, Saturday night, Sunday morning in any kind of Sunday school classes or curriculum, you know, have they heard it addressed?
00:08:46:20 - 00:08:49:11
Randy Evert
And we're talking about across all denominations?
00:08:49:11 - 00:08:58:19
Dr. Mark Laaser
Oh yeah. We're not picking on any denomination now because this this knows no denominational bounds.
00:08:58:19 - 00:09:01:06
Randy Evert
This is this is a universal problem.
00:09:01:06 - 00:09:33:22
Dr. Mark Laaser
This is an extremely universal problem. So I would say for those listeners, if you're looking for a safe church, particularly in recovery, try to find a church that is willing to address this topic. And one of the ways that you would know the churches safer at all levels would be if, in fact, the pastoral staff is addressing these issues, at least at some point during the normal worship service as part of the message, maybe a sermon series, even on healthy sexuality.
00:09:33:25 - 00:09:46:27
Randy Evert
And sometimes that subject can be very confusing, because you'll see that the pastor is not willing to address that on a Sunday morning from the pulpit. And yet that same church will have men's purity groups.
00:09:46:29 - 00:09:48:11
Dr. Mark Laaser
Yeah, that's interesting, isn't it?
00:09:48:12 - 00:10:04:07
Randy Evert
It is because it's it's a sign of our times that there I think that's more of a sign of the need and, and the want is out there for men to meet with men as, as an accountability group.
00:10:04:08 - 00:10:23:25
Dr. Mark Laaser
Well that's right. And it's interesting. It goes kind of back to old 12 step traditions in terms of the history of Alcoholics Anonymous. They would always meet, set the meeting time after the sun went down. So like here in Minnesota, they wouldn't have their meetings until 10:00 in July. But that was because they didn't want to be seen going in and out of church.
00:10:23:26 - 00:10:37:22
Dr. Mark Laaser
Exactly, or in and out of the building wherever they were meeting. But it is true that there are a lot of churches who have support groups, but I've seen situations where the church refuses to allow any announcement about that support group to be in the Sunday bulletin.
00:10:37:26 - 00:10:40:27
Randy Evert
That's that's a strange anomaly there.
00:10:40:29 - 00:11:07:02
Dr. Mark Laaser
Yeah. Here's one of my favorite stories. And it's, you know, time relevant at this point because next week I'm going out to teach a course at Fuller Seminary and Graduate School of Psychology. It's a combined class, and the title of the class is Pastoral Care and Healthy Sexuality. It is the first course of its kind in the nation.
00:11:07:06 - 00:11:32:29
Dr. Mark Laaser
Now, what does that say? If I'm the one, you know, I'm not academically that well qualified or well known. But, you know, if I'm the one that's teaching a course that makes fuller, very progressive and that's kind of sad in a way that, you know, that's not going on in a lot of the other seminaries. Now, one of the interesting stories that happened is that when you sign up for a course at Fuller, you're a full time student or a part time student.
00:11:33:00 - 00:11:59:06
Dr. Mark Laaser
You know, it costs you a certain amount of dollars for every credit you take. Last time I taught two years ago, I had some students in the class who were graduates. You know, they had already finished their degree. And I said, what are you doing in this class? They said, well, we figured that when we did get our degree here at Fuller, this course was not available, and we figured that our education was incomplete because we didn't have any teaching on this subject.
00:11:59:07 - 00:12:00:19
Randy Evert
The better late than never.
00:12:00:20 - 00:12:10:06
Dr. Mark Laaser
Better late than never. Well, not only that, but these guys got Fuller to let them take the course for free because they said it was your mistake in the first place.
00:12:10:08 - 00:12:13:15
Randy Evert
And Fuller was recognizing that they had a shortcoming.
00:12:13:16 - 00:12:34:04
Dr. Mark Laaser
Yeah. That's right. And so they did let him take it for free. All right. We're talking about the criteria or characteristics that I came up with for what is a safe church around the topic of sexuality. So we talked about the topic is addressed from the front, even number two, this is one of my favorite ones. We don't shoot the wounded.
00:12:34:07 - 00:12:56:27
Dr. Mark Laaser
That's what I call it. So in other words, one of the reasons that there's been such a silence in the church is because there's been so much fear of judgment that people will be ostracized, excommunicated, talked to hundreds of pastors who weren't able to talk about their struggles early on because they they were literally afraid that they lose their profession.
00:12:56:29 - 00:13:33:00
Dr. Mark Laaser
The consequences, morally judgmental, are huge. And that, you know, we we feel we can't talk about these things because, you know, we'll literally get shot. So not literally I didn't mean that that way, but that there will be consequences. You know, one of the stories I tell and I can say it with some humor now, although at the time it was very painful when I crashed and burned, the denominational official in my denomination that was responsible for my care came and visited Debbie and I for about 15 minutes.
00:13:33:00 - 00:13:43:02
Dr. Mark Laaser
Was totally uncomfortable the whole time he was there and in effect said, we'll be in communication with you.
00:13:43:04 - 00:13:44:19
Randy Evert
Don't call us, we'll call you.
00:13:44:20 - 00:13:51:01
Dr. Mark Laaser
That's exactly what it was. And so now it's 27 years later and I'm still waiting for that call.
00:13:51:03 - 00:13:52:24
Randy Evert
The call has not yet come in.
00:13:52:25 - 00:13:53:12
Dr. Mark Laaser
All is not.
00:13:53:12 - 00:14:02:19
Randy Evert
Come in. So I think there is a that's a clear indication of the level of anxiety and uneasiness.
00:14:02:25 - 00:14:24:24
Dr. Mark Laaser
Yeah. Well, you know and let me be fair to, you know, the individual involved that he didn't know how to handle the egregious nature of some of the things that I had done. So, you know, I really don't blame him, but I think it's a it's a wider cultural indication that whether it was back then or it's today, we sometimes don't know how to handle these kind of situations.
00:14:24:24 - 00:14:29:03
Dr. Mark Laaser
When people get into sexual difficulty.
00:14:29:07 - 00:14:42:26
Randy Evert
Well, I think one of the challenging aspects of that that many people are not aware of is that our research has shown us that many times the clergy themselves are struggling with with issues.
00:14:42:26 - 00:14:53:02
Dr. Mark Laaser
Well, the ones that may seem to have the greatest amount of challenge to address it publicly might be a symptom of the fact that they're struggling with it themselves. Not always the case. So don't know.
00:14:53:03 - 00:15:06:06
Randy Evert
I'm not trying to point a thing. Yeah, and and neither are we trying to imply that the that the pastors across the board struggle with it. But there are enough.
00:15:06:07 - 00:15:39:11
Dr. Mark Laaser
Yes, that is true. There's no doubt about that. Number three, Randy, I think that it's very powerful is that a safe church will include in even the worship service testimonies from people who have struggled with infidelity issues, sometimes even full blown addiction issues, and be able to give a brief testimony, like a lot of churches do. I know you go to a church where they have a faith story.
00:15:39:12 - 00:15:40:18
Randy Evert
Absolutely.
00:15:40:20 - 00:16:12:14
Dr. Mark Laaser
And our church that we go to is the daughter church of that church, and we have faith stories. And actually at our church, there was a time about, I don't know, 5 or 6 years ago when one of our alumni couples did a faith story and they told it as a couple, and basically it was a story about how they had recovered from the infidelity, the husband, which at that point mainly included looking at pornography and so forth.
00:16:12:17 - 00:16:27:09
Dr. Mark Laaser
I remember very clearly that, you know, when they were finished as a couple telling their story of how God was in the process of healing their marriage and transforming their marriage, they got a very thunderous round of applause.
00:16:27:11 - 00:16:55:01
Randy Evert
Well, I would hope so. You know the thing about a couple sharing their struggles like this, I think that if you format it, it's almost brilliant to format it like a faith story, because I think on the surface, the idea of trying to encourage an individual to tell his story or a couple to tell their story of struggle and recovery is a hard sell because of the social implications.
00:16:55:01 - 00:17:14:14
Randy Evert
You know, they're just so afraid of what is everybody going to think? But when you fashion it like a faith story, saying, here's what we've been struggling with, God is leading us, you know, to to a road of healing and recovery. I think that that makes that scenario much more doable.
00:17:14:15 - 00:17:53:27
Dr. Mark Laaser
Yeah, that's right. I think there is a lot of energy in a lot of churches these days to have more transparent faith stories that involve, you know, testimonies of recovery from all different kinds of addictions. And we're starting to see that there are some testimonies of people that have struggled with even sexual addiction. Now, I'm not talking just about some of the great movements across the country around Celebrate Recovery Ministries or Recovery Ministries, where they have a special night, where they do praise and worship, and somebody tells their story of recovery from an addiction.
00:17:54:00 - 00:18:20:02
Dr. Mark Laaser
I'm talking about actually from the front during the main worship services. There have even been examples in the last number of years of pastors who have not so much confessed. It's not like a public confession. It's more a story of how they themselves have struggled, perhaps with pornography or whatever, and how God has redeemed their life and transformed their life.
00:18:20:05 - 00:18:36:06
Randy Evert
I think when that message comes from the top, it's very powerful in the fact that if our pastor can struggle with this, then the secret I've been hiding in the closet all these years, you know, it's time for me to confront that problem myself.
00:18:36:07 - 00:18:59:03
Dr. Mark Laaser
That's right. Well, if you remember that number two about our list of seven things was that we don't shoot our wounded. I think that if we are hearing from the front that there are testimonies, people being applauded for their testimonies, that it's safe to come forward in the church and talk about your struggles, that is probably one of the key points of all of these seven.
00:18:59:05 - 00:19:15:18
Dr. Mark Laaser
That church that is willing to encourage transparency, even from the very top, even from pastoral leadership. I think that goes a long way to saying to the average person out in the pew, you know, it is it is safe for you to come forward and talk about your story.
00:19:15:19 - 00:19:17:26
Randy Evert
After all, none of us are perfect.
00:19:17:26 - 00:19:21:09
Dr. Mark Laaser
That's right. Everyone sends. Everyone falls short.
00:19:21:11 - 00:19:25:22
Randy Evert
It's whether you're brave enough to to share that that information.
00:19:25:22 - 00:19:29:17
Dr. Mark Laaser
That's right. And it breaks the silence that keeps a lot of people. And that's your shame.
00:19:29:18 - 00:19:41:17
Randy Evert
You know, that's one of the key phrases that you and Debbie is around here. Break the silence. And because silence, as you say, Mark, what do we say about silence at faithful and True?
00:19:41:22 - 00:19:45:11
Dr. Mark Laaser
Silence is the major enemy of sexual health.
00:19:45:12 - 00:19:49:21
Randy Evert
Absolutely. The number one enemy of sexual health is silence.
00:19:49:21 - 00:19:53:27
Dr. Mark Laaser
That's right. Since we have a limited amount of time, let's see if we can get the final four things.
00:19:53:28 - 00:19:55:03
Randy Evert
Oh, I'm sure you can.
00:19:55:04 - 00:20:16:12
Dr. Mark Laaser
All right. Number four, I believe that a safe church will have educational programs at all levels about healthy sexuality. Some of our listeners would know that, I don't know, 15 years ago, I wrote a book called Talking to Your Kids About Sex. And I got myself into a little bit of controversy around how early I think that conversation needs to start.
00:20:16:15 - 00:20:41:02
Dr. Mark Laaser
The average person out there thinks that, you know, when a young person finally approaches adolescence and puberty and so forth, that that's when we should have these conversations. And I've always believed that there are certain topics that can be addressed even about physical health, physical development, the differences between boys and girls, you know, these kinds of things are topics of healthy sexuality, and they need to start early.
00:20:41:02 - 00:21:05:17
Dr. Mark Laaser
And it reflects the fact, of course, that the average child these days is very computer savvy. They're able to click on lots of things. They're able to do their own Google searches, and sometimes even accidentally, they're going to stumble across pretty explicit sexual material. So if we don't start the conversation with them early on, they're going to be kind of lost in the sea of misinformation that can be out there on the internet.
00:21:05:18 - 00:21:27:11
Randy Evert
Well, and to strengthen your point there, we have seen through our fight of your life events, you know, the statistic that early on or not that long ago, the average age for a child viewing pornography was like 11 years old. 11 or 12. Right. And now that age is dropping dramatically.
00:21:27:12 - 00:22:00:05
Dr. Mark Laaser
That is right. And we've certainly had instances here at Faithful and True where a five year old has accidentally stumbled across pornography and then continued to look at it, and the parents are kind of tearing their hair out, you know, about what to do with that. What I'm saying is that in terms of a healthy church, I think the youth leadership, the middle school pastor, the high school pastor, the college pastor, you know, those kind of people need to be prepared to have educational programs about healthy sexuality.
00:22:00:05 - 00:22:23:06
Dr. Mark Laaser
They need to teach that from a biblical perspective, a theological perspective, and they need to open up the conversation. So many of the guys that come here, you know, tell stories about when they were in church, youth group or Sunday school, even that they wished that they could have had more information, more conversation, and that no one was talking about it.
00:22:23:06 - 00:23:04:07
Dr. Mark Laaser
So they felt that they were struggling with these things alone in that sense of aloneness and silence, like we were just talking about, contributes to the shame which keeps them locked up in the in the prison of perhaps even addiction. So one of the things that I think I'm the most proud of in some of the teaching that I've done over the last ten years, is that I teach this course out at Fuller Seminary in the final project is like a paper, but what it what it really is is that the students in the class, some of whom are candidates for the Master of Divinity degree, some of them are candidates for the Doctor of
00:23:04:07 - 00:23:28:15
Dr. Mark Laaser
Psychology degree. They are required to create educational programs for various populations in the in the church. We could we could talk just about the youth. But I think young adults, young couples need lots of education about healthy sexuality. So many young couples get into their marriages and they struggle with this. And no one at church is addressing this for them.
00:23:28:16 - 00:23:42:19
Dr. Mark Laaser
You know, we're pretty good at doing premarital counseling, but we're not very good at all at doing post marital counseling. So I'm saying that that all populations of the church, all ages of the church, there needs to be programs developed around these topics.
00:23:42:22 - 00:23:45:16
Randy Evert
Well, let's move on to point number five.
00:23:45:18 - 00:24:12:18
Dr. Mark Laaser
Yes, a safe church, I think, is one that has active support groups for people struggling with, you know, all addictions. Now. It's been very common. Everyone knows that since the early days of Alcoholics Anonymous in 1935, the churches were probably the number one place that hosted 12 step groups. And those groups were usually, as we say, in the basement, you know, downstairs, and you went into them through the back door.
00:24:12:18 - 00:24:33:00
Dr. Mark Laaser
And that has changed a lot. And there are certainly because of the great work that Saddleback Church has done in its Celebrate Recovery program, there are now, you know, dedicated nights in a lot of churches where they come for praise and worship, and then they break off into their individual support groups for a variety of addictions and and co dependencies.
00:24:33:02 - 00:25:00:01
Dr. Mark Laaser
I just think there needs to be more of that, and that a safe church is a place that has resources to send people to. You know, there's a group that meets here for men who are struggling to be accountable about sexual purity. That group meets on Thursday night at 7:00, and you're welcome to attend. We could talk a whole show about this one, but I do think I'm encouraging churches to be open to to people who might even want to start such a group.
00:25:00:01 - 00:25:14:13
Dr. Mark Laaser
And there are there are ministries, and certainly we participate with Life Ministries or Life Ministries International now that has developed materials, some of which I've written that are dedicated to creating Christ centered support groups and local churches.
00:25:14:13 - 00:25:45:02
Randy Evert
Well, this goes hand in hand Mark, with the standard that we teach here on a daily basis, which goes back to the accountability groups in which hand in hand, the strength is in numbers, where men are going to be more inclined to commit themselves to sexual purity when they're surrounded by men that are dedicated to doing the same, encouraging them, you know, creating a call list on your cell phone for those days, those nights that you're having a difficult time.
00:25:45:02 - 00:26:11:06
Dr. Mark Laaser
That's right. So I think one of the keys to this is, again, senior leadership, the senior pastor, the head pastor, the preaching pastor. I think he needs to be aware of this. And he also or she needs to announce it even from the front, which basically gives credibility and safety to the program, said, you know, those of you that are struggling out there with this or that particular issue, there is a support group meeting for that.
00:26:11:06 - 00:26:14:19
Dr. Mark Laaser
It meets on Thursday night and I would invite you to attend.
00:26:14:21 - 00:26:25:19
Randy Evert
And if it's presented with enthusiasm and commitment, then it then in the eyes and ears of the people in the congregation, it's not interpreted with great shame.
00:26:25:19 - 00:26:46:14
Dr. Mark Laaser
That's right, that's right. So again, I think an interest of time. We need to move on. We have two final points, number six on our David Letterman list here. And it's not a David Letterman list at all. It's actually quite serious. But number six is I believe that churches occasionally, maybe once a year or so, will conduct an event like a Saturday morning.
00:26:46:14 - 00:27:10:18
Dr. Mark Laaser
We used to call them men's prayer breakfast or, you know, a night out for the women or whatever. It is an event, maybe a 3 or 4 hour event. We're doing as as we've talked about so often, the fight of your life events, which are six hour events, but it's a motivational event. It brings speakers into the church and invites men of all ages, or women of all ages to come into the church.
00:27:10:19 - 00:27:40:06
Dr. Mark Laaser
Here are great speakers on a topic concerning, you know, addiction or you know, certain specific issues. I've come to find that it's one thing to announce in a church that you know, all a support group meets on Thursday night. Well, you know, men may trickle into that, but if we hold an event in which we blow the lid off the silence and we get several hundred men coming to these events, and we get them talking, even during the event about things that they perhaps have never talked to anybody about.
00:27:40:07 - 00:27:50:24
Dr. Mark Laaser
You know, the kickoff motivational men's prayer breakfast type of event will will really raise the energy level for healthy dealing with these issues in that local church.
00:27:50:26 - 00:27:54:09
Randy Evert
And that brings us to our final point on today's show.
00:27:54:15 - 00:28:16:00
Dr. Mark Laaser
Well, I've already kind of mentioned this one, but I think one of the most neglected populations of healthy sexuality in the church is with couples. And I could broaden that and say that I think the average church needs a lot of help in getting a more active couples ministry. We have singles ministries, we have youth ministries, we have men's ministries, we have women's ministries.
00:28:16:00 - 00:28:46:19
Dr. Mark Laaser
I think the most population is couples. Couples are the ones that are struggling with these issues. And we need to have events for couples. We need to have support groups for couples, we need to have educational events about healthy sexuality for couples. And I think a really safe and healthy church has really got in mind that, that perhaps half the couples out in the congregation on any given Sunday morning are probably struggling with these issues, so we need to minister to that.
00:28:46:19 - 00:28:48:02
Dr. Mark Laaser
So anyway, that's number seven.
00:28:48:02 - 00:29:02:01
Randy Evert
Well, let's wrap up today's show with a call to action from you directly to the church leaders who are hearing us, the pastors who are listening to us, the men who have an influence within their church to to take action.
00:29:02:02 - 00:29:23:01
Dr. Mark Laaser
Well, I do think that in a way of just said it, that there's a there's a shame that will normally keep this pretty locked in silence. So any leadership out there, women's or men's ministry leadership, pastors that are listening, you know, be open to some of these ideas that we've suggested and be energetic, be a leader, start creating some of this stuff.
00:29:23:02 - 00:29:44:02
Dr. Mark Laaser
If there's any way that we hear a faithful and true can help you, support you with materials we have. We have Bible study materials, support group materials. We do do these events where we're looking in 2015 and 16 for scheduling events like that. So, you know, give us a call and use us. Most of all, I think this is going to be a little controversial.
00:29:44:05 - 00:30:06:07
Dr. Mark Laaser
But if you feel like right now that you're attending a church that is totally closed to these kind of things, and you have an internal sense that it doesn't always feel safe, then I would just encourage you to be open to perhaps looking around a little bit and seeing if there are safer churches. This is a controversial part.
00:30:06:13 - 00:30:20:00
Dr. Mark Laaser
You know, I, I'm not advocating any denomination, any specific church. I'm just saying trust your intuition or your instincts about whether the place where you're going to be in regular Christian community feels safe to you or not.
00:30:20:01 - 00:31:07:01
Randy Evert
And if you're interested in learning more about the fight of your life events that we've referenced go to fight of Your Life events. Thank you for joining us today on the Faithful and True podcast. You've been enjoying doctor Mark lasers presentation of the characteristics of a Safe church. We hope that this has been an informative and entertaining podcast for you to enjoy, and it's always a pleasure to be able to feature the wisdom and of doctor Mark laser, so we hope that you'll take the time to visit our website, Faithful and True, where you'll find many resources that will be helpful to you on your healing journey.
00:31:07:03 - 00:31:23:03
Randy Evert
And we hope that today's podcast was informative and entertaining for you as well. So in the meantime, we hope that this coming week for you will be a week that's filled with many blessings and with great vision.